is the US Decl. of Indep. Outdated?

icegoat63

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
#1
The U.S. Declaration of Independence said:
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security
This is a beautiful statement, one that I feel helps light the fire in the belly of Liberty and Freedom lovers. Its more than just words, it was a passion as stated in the following sentence in the Declaration itself "The patient sufferance of the Colonies". Now before you stop here and start bashing me as yet another Obama Hater Thread... its not, This isnt in reference to Obama believe it or not... Obama is no King George.

I was reading another article mostly pertaining to the Health bill and how those who Voted yes are getting a very nasty/dirty response from those who dont like it. Just for the record, I do not condone the immoral acts in which some of the protesters have taken.

HOWEVER... I can see where they are coming from and it was this statement from Representative Dutch Ruppersberger (D-Md.)that made me stop to think.... Are we back at square one?

Rep. Dutch Ruppersberger (D-Md.) said he’s already getting 95 percent fewer calls since Sunday’s vote.

“The real problem is the people who are calling and talking about a revolution and overthrowing government,” he said. “They can be angry. We’re all for that. But when they talk about taking over the government, the leadership has to do its part to stop that.”

The backlash: Reform turns personal - Yahoo! News
the leadership has to do its part to stop that.

Not fix that... Stop that.

:hmm:
 

JAdams

Registered Member
#2
Well, maybe that's the point Jefferson was making. Sometimes we'll find ourselves back to where we started and if the government is being oppressive, we have to change it.

Luckily, we don't have to take up arms against the government. We can simply vote them out and put it new faces. After all, the Constitution and the Declaration works just fine, it's just the people in power that are the problem.
 

pro2A

Hell, It's about time!
#3
This is a beautiful statement, one that I feel helps light the fire in the belly of Liberty and Freedom lovers. Its more than just words, it was a passion as stated in the following sentence in the Declaration itself "The patient sufferance of the Colonies". Now before you stop here and start bashing me as yet another Obama Hater Thread... its not, This isnt in reference to Obama believe it or not... Obama is no King George.

I was reading another article mostly pertaining to the Health bill and how those who Voted yes are getting a very nasty/dirty response from those who dont like it. Just for the record, I do not condone the immoral acts in which some of the protesters have taken.

HOWEVER... I can see where they are coming from and it was this statement from Representative Dutch Ruppersberger (D-Md.)that made me stop to think.... Are we back at square one?



the leadership has to do its part to stop that.

Not fix that... Stop that.

:hmm:
See Amendment Number 2, United States Constitution.

They put it there for a reason. Will it come to that? It may... I do hope we exhaust all other options first, but that option isn't out of the cards yet.

I still think if it comes to that though the military or police will not fire on American citizens if they rise to arms. Once the police and military say to themselves "We're not enforcing this tyrannical crap on the American people " and they lay down their arms, the government no longer has the power to enforce their will and can be peacefully overthrown and replaced. I firmly believe that the majority of military and police are on the side of the American people, because most of them are regular citizens themselves.
 
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CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
#4
Originally Posted by The U.S. Declaration of Independence

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security
That is absolutely my favorite line from the Declaration of Independence, I agree, it's a beautiful statement that simplifies exactly what this country stands for and why it was conceived.

I've been saying lately that I'm being more and more convinced that it is time for a Revolution and I get looks from people like I'm nuts, but it's these words I keep coming back to.

And I agree, this isn't about being anti-Obama, I'm fed up with both parties. There are very few in Washington I would consider true patriots in the sense that they believe in what the Founders believed.

The call for independence wasn't about territory, it was about ideals, a different way of life. A life free from the chains of government.


Well, maybe that's the point Jefferson was making. Sometimes we'll find ourselves back to where we started and if the government is being oppressive, we have to change it.

Luckily, we don't have to take up arms against the government. We can simply vote them out and put it new faces. After all, the Constitution and the Declaration works just fine, it's just the people in power that are the problem.
The problem is both parties abuse our liberties. The Constitution has been trampled on so many times it's hard to fall back on it's original intent.
 

Bananas

Endangered Species
#5
Are we back at square one?
You've always been at and always be at square one. All the declaration did was replace a bunch of bigwigs in London to a bunch of bigwigs in Washington and guess what 200 and however many years later you're still........you get the idea.

Heres a thought; is representation the ability the people have to sway the government or is it the governments abillity to sway the people?
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
#6
You've always been at and always be at square one. All the declaration did was replace a bunch of bigwigs in London to a bunch of bigwigs in Washington and guess what 200 and however many years later you're still........you get the idea.

Heres a thought; is representation the ability the people have to sway the government or is it the governments abillity to sway the people?
I disagree. The declaration replaced the bigwigs in London, the place where we had no representation and our rights were oppressed, with the people. Slowly we've worked ourselved back to having our rights oppressed yet again.
 

Bananas

Endangered Species
#7
I disagree. The declaration replaced the bigwigs in London, the place where we had no representation and our rights were oppressed, with the people.
These people you talk of; Were they the ones being represented, or, were they the ones doing the representing?

Slowly we've worked ourselved back to having our rights oppressed yet again.
What rights?

Im using wikipedia as a source as I dont know the full clause or history...

"The United States constitution does not provide for referendums at the federal level"
 

pro2A

Hell, It's about time!
#9
Most notably a failure to recoginze states rights as guranteed by the Tenth Amendment as well as an expansion of federal authority mostly found in a reinterpretation of the Commerce Clause.
Thank God a lot of states are standing up for their citizens... I think the state level will be the fix here. It seems as if the states actually care about the people.