Is racism ever justified?

Discussion in 'Politics & Law' started by Bananas, Sep 4, 2009.

  1. Bananas

    Bananas Endangered Species

    When does a recognition of cultural boundaries become to have racial connotations?

    For example take the Roma Gypsies when I see the way of life they live and the morals they uphold I ifnd it difficult not to have a sincere disliking for these people, the reason I dislike them is due to the culture that they belong to that has been installed into them throughout their lives. I dont hold any sympathy for these people. I saw a program where they found 20 romany children locked in a container, they were child slaves and would swarm the streets to steal and beg in the daytime, who return to the adults at night who would take the money and lock them up. They were all placed into care but 19 of the children escaped and returned back to this life of servitude by choice, only 1 gave evidence against the captors. The system of the romany people is that the children are raised and rewarded by how good of a thief they are. Even though this is not a physical trait, it is one that is deeply cultural and makes the Roma who they are. Can we really exist without racism if we will always identify cultural indifference?
     

  2. Wade8813

    Wade8813 Registered Member

    I have no problem with disliking a peoples' culture. In fact, there are probably screwed up elements in every culture. But culture and race are two very different things. There tend to be people within any culture that aren't of the same race, and there are always people of a race who aren't part of that culture.

    Also, I'm don't know much about Gypsy culture, but it seems to me that it would have originated from their struggle to survive. Maybe it's outdated now, but it can be hard to overcome centuries of culture.
     
  3. Konshentz

    Konshentz Konshentz

    Towards white people, yes.
     
    BigBob and icegoat63 like this.
  4. icegoat63

    icegoat63 Son of Liberty V.I.P. Lifetime

    OH yeah definitely I feel there are times that for an individual can qualify and almost even rationalize racism, making it justified.

    I've got an example of when I believe that some racism can in fact be justified. Where I'm from we have a dense population of Illegal Mexicans that arrive every year (around this time) for Grape picking season. For me, thats strike #1 because already they are taking away jobs that I feel many legal Californian Citizens could have done for the same price if we werent so damn lazy. But through years of this practice its become "a mexicans job".

    Strike #2 comes slightly after picking season and right before the Mexicans are shipped back to Mexico. Drunk Driving related car wrecks jump up easily 2 fold in my area. Why? Because in Mexico its common practice to drink and drive, its not near shunned on upon as it is here in the States. And thus they bring the habit of Drinking and Driving up here, finish the picking season, get paid, get drunk, and commence to drive. So now you've got an established routine that cant seem to be broken. Why should they adapt to our rules and culture right? they are only here for the picking season and to collect the check.

    Heres where Racism begins to become justified in this situation. I had a friend in high school who's brother was killed by an illegal Mexican who was drunk driving, T-boned his silverado, he was pronounced DOA, the Mexican ditched the scene but was later found hiding in a field. He killed her brother, and the only punishment he got was to be shipped back to Mexico a couple weeks early.

    The same time next year, that same friend of mine suffered another loss, Her mother. Driving to pick up her little brother from Elementary school, was hit head on by a drunk driver, also an illegal Mexican. The mother was in a coma for 2 days, when the family took her off of the iron lung she died sometime after.

    not one, but two cases of ignorant happenstances that tarnish a certain peoples record. My friend doesn't hate Mexicans in general, but illegal Mexicans or grape pickers.... she absolutely resents. But can you blame her?
     
  5. Wade8813

    Wade8813 Registered Member

    But that's just it - she doesn't hate Mexicans in general. She hates illegal immigrants, and hates drunk drivers. I don't think that qualifies as racism.
     
  6. Twitch

    Twitch Registered Member

    I can get to be racist when we have a president that gets elected because he is of a different skin color.

    No it's not the only reason he was elected, but I've told been told by people that they voted for him because he was black.
     
  7. redsoxocd

    redsoxocd living on the border

    Hmmm...is racism ever justified...yes.

    I can get quite racist...I mainly have a problem with my own race (so is it really called racism)
     
  8. Bananas

    Bananas Endangered Species

    In general this is correct, however in some circumstance the race and the culture are synonymous. The Romani are a prime example of this. Perhaps a rare few do break through the boundaries to be assimilated into mainstream society but the majority by far will remain as gypsies.

    I know it is not exclusive to their race, many people of all colours steal and beg. Plus if you took a Roma child young enough and detached it from their culture then you would probably avoid the unsavory traits so common amongst them. It is not a genetic(race) thing and would not be the same as saying sub-Saharan Africans make good runners and poor swimmers, it is difficult to define.


    But we will always tar people with the same brush. I think the point of my question is when does cultural indifference/objection become to be racist, is their a difference? We are all told racism is bad so should we ignore cultural diversity?

    Im not a racist person, at least I think Im not. However when I see the gypsies I do sometimes think that Hitler had the right idea, now that's an abhorrent thought that I must stress I do oppose, it just got me wondering where is the line between recognition and racism? how can we identify and address a legitimate problem without it becoming racist, xenophobic or even genocidal?


    Would you like to elaborate, these are discussion forums after all.

    Why do you hold this view?
     
  9. BigBob

    BigBob Registered Member

    Is it ever justified?

    Is there a reason why a black person can call a black person a "nigger" and that's okay, but a white person calling a black person a "nigger" isn't?

    It's incorrect to call a black person "an African-American" because they take offense to that too.

    It's justified if you're the right color.

    No blacks were meant to be hurt in the making of this post.
     
  10. Bjarki

    Bjarki Registered Member

    The Roma problems are culturally determined, not racially.. or so I think..
    I have to agree with you though, little good comes from them..
    The government did a study on them a while ago:
    - Under the age of 18, 25% had a criminal record (compared to 2% among the rest of the population).
    - Above the age of 18 an estimated 75% has one (compared to 15% among the rest of the populace in the town where the study was taken).
    - Furthermore the police frequently stumbled upon children, aged 12 or less, used for criminal activities.

    As causes for these numbers these are mentioned:
    - High expenses associated with Roma-culture combined with a minimum wage.
    - Dutch laws and rules are considered inferior to Roma-traditions.

    Other problems include children not going to school, or infrequently. There are hardly any Roma who hold a degree of some sort. Employment rates are virtually nil.
    Contacts with the neighbourhood are generally poor if not hostile due to excessive noise or parking issues.
    Etcetera etcetera.


    The whole anti-racism and cultural indifference-thing is nothing more than an artificial boundary put in place in order to secure the well-being of 'jews'. They may serve a practical purpose, but they are also intellectual roadblocks that keep us from understanding complex issues related to culture and race.
    Racism is justified, we should just be wary not to abuse our scientific insights to legitimize the repression of minorities on the basis of race. Roma-problems should be dealt with by the law.. they apply to everyone alike.
    On the other hand, I think we should take better care of protecting our societies against certain unwanted elements. As EU-civilians the Roma may very well move 'here' in the millions, which would cause a whole lot of shit. It's better to keep the borders closed and require those who enter to subscribe to fundamental values we all share. People who hold dear to the Roma-culture of unemployment, stealing and child-abuse shouldn't be welcome.
     

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