Is God real or an explanation of why????

[pretendersfan]

I do not want this thread to be a silly topic , I would like a real debate..
There are a few questions to ask everyone..
1..If God is a true Being( spirit or whatever ) was he ( or she ??) created, born somehow, He or she could not just be there, everything is created out of something, so how can there be just one of these beings???
2.. Man or Woman has to put things in there place, and why we are here is a hard thing to fathom, was God or gods an answer to this question???
3.. If we go with the idea of the age of this universe, where were the so called Gods, in a nothing,how can this be. To be before nothing, how do you create a something?? and with what sort of understanding of what you are going to create. it all does not make any sort of sense.. Any views?????

 

[Doc]

Christians believe that God is "always there" and can use an argument like "He doesn't have to have a physical being because He's omnipotent." It goes along with their blind faith, and also helps to fix the "God had to be created, too" problem.

To answer your second question, of course not, we evolved from an animal similar to the chimpanzee, and that's how we eventually evolved into civilized life.

Again, the Christian explanation for all of this is that God is omnipotent, and He can do whatever He wants. So if God wanted to create matter from nothing, he could, and then magically all of the laws of physics, quantum physics, quantum mechanics, gravity, ect all just kind of worked themselves out.

 

[Mirage]

Hmmm.. Well Steve, you forget that if matter was created from nothing then perhaps the same "being" that did that could by chance just possibly be able to set up physics, etc without much trouble.

Interestingly enough blind faith works both ways. In one hand you can believe something that doesn't make sense necessarily based on human standards, for example, that God does exist. In the other hand, you can believe that everything just kind of worked itself out magically through evolution. To date there is NO proof that humans evolved from chimpanzees. There are theories, but a theory without proof requires blind faith if you are going to believe it.

I know this isn't an evolution thread but while we are sort of on the topic, isn't evolution defined by things just kind of working themselves out?

The big problem with the whole "Is there a God" argument is that most people have already made up their mind by the time they have the argument. It's not like trying to convince somebody to switch deodorants.

 

[Phoenix]

The big problem with the whole "Is there a God" argument is that most people have already made up their mind by the time they have the argument. It's not like trying to convince somebody to switch deodorants.

heeheeheehee :lol:
That is quite funny, Andrew. With the evolution question, I think that god orchistrated for us to become the way we are through evolution. Same with quantum physics. I think that everything is designed to be the way it is. Of course, I realize that my belief can be quite incorrect, but as I said in the "macroevolution versus microevolution" debate, we may never know the answer. So I have an open mind to other people's beliefs.

 

[MenInTights]

Interestingly enough blind faith works both ways. In one hand you can believe something that doesn't make sense necessarily based on human standards, for example, that God does exist. In the other hand, you can believe that everything just kind of worked itself out magically through evolution. To date there is NO proof that humans evolved from chimpanzees. There are theories, but a theory without proof requires blind faith if you are going to believe it.

Here's some blind faith I thought about while reading this.

We have access to all of nature's elements, plus a few that we created.
We have access to more power than occurs naturally in nature.
We have exposed the genetic code.
We have all the technology and science of the Earth.

Animal evolution starts with a single celled organism.
So, why can't we create that in a lab?

If we have the same materials nature used to create life and we can't do it with all of our knowledge and power, we must then blindly believe that nature randomly created life and admit that it happened outside of our comprehension. That is REAL Blind Faith.

 

[pretendersfan]

The blind faith answer is not an answer to my question. It just says these things are and thats ok. But its not an answer. nothing comes from nothing..

 

[MenInTights]

The blind faith answer is not an answer to my question. It just says these things are and thats ok. But its not an answer. nothing comes from nothing..

God is infinite. He exist outside of time. There are other infinite things in life. There are an infinite number of numbers between 0 and 1. The universe itself is infinite.

 

[Doc]

How do you know the universe is infinite?

 

[SimplyGenius]

Spence, what do you mean by an infinite universe?

There are four aspects of the universe-

Matter- That which has mass and occupies space.

Space- Theunlimited expanse in which everything is located.

Time- A quantity used to specify the order in which events occurred and measure the amount by which one even preceded or followed another.

Energy- The capacity to do work.

Here's some food for thought- How might you measure M S T or E?

Matter/tons

Space/cubic light-years

Time/ millennia

Energy/joules

This means they all exist. Something can be immaterial and still exist. If you still say no, here's some more food for thought-

What would it mean not to have any one of these things?

Without Matter, there would only be infinite space. But there would be time.

Without Space, there would be no volume (nothing in which to put matter).

Without Time, nothing would ever happen. Matter would never come forth.

Without Energy, nothing would ever happen in time. Matter would never come forth.

But what if we didn't have God? Without God, matter would never arise, for there would be no cause to it. Even if matter did arise, it could not order itself (i.e. spontaneously generate life, or make a fine-tuned solar system for it to thrive).

Now I have an interesting hunch. Maybe Time is infinite, while Matter has only existed for a certain amount of time. This would mean that space has always existed while just recently Matter was put into it. Therefore, God has always existed, and he created matter, being an unlimited force outside of it and able to shape every part of it. He was the first cause of the first event in time. Time has always existed, while the history of cause and effect is finite. If time were not infinite, then there would be absoutely nothing before the universe, not even God.

If you watch my "Science and The Law of Invention" video on YouTube, I guess I meant the history of cause and effect by "Time", not time itself. Time is immaterial. Therefore, it can be infinite. Space, therefore, has always existed, just not matter. Space is immaterial. In fact, it is the exact opposite of matter. It is nothing as opposed to something.

Does God not having power over time mean anything? No. He could cause every atom in the universe to move three times as slow, and he wouldn't have affected time whatsoever. Time is a constant, and God not being able to affect it is not an inabilty. God cannot exist without time, for there would be nothing in which to show he is infinite. The entirety of time is an abstract concept. If you base a length of time on something physical, only then is it limited. That is called a history. The history of God is infinite, since he is immaterial. That's why he is infinite. The History of time is infinite, since it is immaterial. The history of space is also infinite, since it is immaterial. The history of energy is infinite, since it is immaterial (God was the first energy). But the history of matter (of cause and effect) is finite, since it IS material.

So how can there be a god?

God is "all-powerful", correct? Therefore, he is in complete control of all the energy in the universe. He can use it to shape and move what he wants and how he wants. God is the embodiment of infinite energy. He is the invisible hand behind it ALL. He is able to speak to us by creating thunderous voices in the skies. Or he can simply form matter in a way that is mind-boggling. Or maybe even through a book. God is all-knowing simply because he is all-powerful. Something powerful enough to shape our universe must also be all-knowing (knows everything about everything there is) to shape it the way he/it did. The cause of all atoms must therefore know everything about them. God can ultimately make any-sized rock that is not infinite.

His powerfills all of space and time, for he is energy, he is power, and such can never be created or destroyed. How can he exist? No, the question is, how can he not exist?

Only fools would do a bad thing. We are all fools, for we do not know everything in the universe. Therefore, we make mistakes, and we do bad things, for we do not know all the workings of the world, therefore we do not understand exactly what will happen if we do something. God on the other hand knows everything, and he understands fully the consequeces of his actions. Therefore, he is a good God. He is a loving God, for only a fool would hate.

His ultimate plan for the universe cannot be totally comprehended. When something bad happens to you, and it's not your fault, the last thing you should do is blame it on God. You have no idea what good things will come of the incident. It's sort of like Karma, but different. What goes around comes around. In other words, every action has a consequence. It is the balance of the universe. God understands this.

Therefore God knows why Homosexuality is wrong. It screws with the system he created, and ultimately the individual misses out on -cough,cough- the REAL fun, and the true enjoyment of life.

He knows why murder is wrong. It is the ending of a life, which will harden your heart, and that will cause you to do all sorts of other personally damaging things. It also destroys someone who could have made a big difference in the world.

Morality is simply the knowledge of how societies of men and women should behave ultimately in their own interests. It might be different for aliens. Morality is absolute to humans, and we cannot split it into pieces and fill the rest with junk amongst ourselves.

So what does it mean to be "made in God's image"? Self-realization. In other words, you acknowledge yourself and the universe. Animals are set with specific functions on earth and never speculate about the cosmos. I think Humans were meant to look up at the skies at night. I think God put them stars up there as big flashing lights basically saying, "I DONE IT, WORSHIP ME!!!"

This is my view of God. He is the beginning and the end. He has power over all that there is. He is the embodiment of power; of energy. I predict that we will one day find that if there were any more matter in the universe, life could not be supported. And same thing if there was less matter. This means God didn't need to make a bigger universe. He wanted one just big enough to harbor the human race.

God cannot be created or destroyed.

Energy cannot be created or destroyed.

And how do we know there aren't multiple gods? Well you can't count immaterial objects. If you think you can, you believe in a fairy tale. You can't be part material, part immaterial. That's called magic, and it doesn't exist! You can't bend God powers to your own will. He has a will of his own!

 

[Phoenix]

I found that quite interesting SimplyGenius...and I found myself agreeing with some of it...there are a few things that I have a definitely have differing opinion about, but I dont want to start anything that will result in a closed thread.