If you don't obey EVERY single word of your sacred text, surely you are a sinner too?

#1
Hi.

So yes, from the title... please explain if you think otherwise.

The inconsistency from all major religions, to me, already makes theism a bit ridiculous, and that's without even coming to some of the claims they make!

Let's arbitrarily take Christianity. Are you happy to associate yourselves with, say, Westboro Baptist Church?

These people have to be some of the most vile, backwards people alive in Western civilisation today. Their argument would be "We're doing God's work".

They believe in a God as much as you do, yet even they are hypocrites. They are following the evil, brutal tellings of the First Testament closer than you possibly are... but even they aren't following every word. These people are actually well educated in some senses (except, of course for science). They go to rallies to shout "God Hates Fags" anywhere and everywhere they can. They don't offer sacrafices, nor kill off other "armies" in God's name though.

I know it would enrage most of you to even be associated with such scum bags, I'm pretty sure you are all lovely people BUT you are both reading from the same scripture. What's to say you are right, and they are wrong? Or you're both right or both wrong? It seems impossible to doing anything right in the Bible anyways.

So... this is just one of many issues I have with religion in general. To me, if you truly believe in something like that, what tells you that you can cherry pick the ones you like and the ones you don't?

Can you really believe you'll burn in Hell for some offences and not others?
 

Gavik

Registered Member
#2
You've just pointed out the most glaring hole in all religions that most people choose to conveniently ignore.

Don't like the fact that the bible preaches homophobia? Don't ignore that part, just don't be christian anymore.
 

Ilus_Unistus

Registered Member
#3
You've just pointed out the most glaring hole in all religions that most people choose to conveniently ignore.

Don't like the fact that the bible preaches homophobia? Don't ignore that part, just don't be christian anymore.

Well said Gavik.

I feel as Gavik as well. Nothing is more annoying to me than one who preaches about how if I am not a Christian or of any faith I will go to Hell... First to me there is no Hell, just absence of life. Second these same people "selectively" state this and that is the truth even though science says differently, but when it comes to things like Gays, or non believers and the punishments that should be handed down by a Christian... these things they say are "old school" Bible... it is completely hypocritical to say this MUST be true but this is not in the same book. It all is or it is not... this simple.
 

Daemonic

Registered Member
#4
I'm not a christian but it drives me nuts when people say ignorant stuff like that. All Christian means is a person that follows the teachings of Christ. Being Christian does not mean you subscribe to the old testament shit and is by far not an obligation to be a douchebag if you use the label. It means you follow the teachings of Christ, whom also brought about the new covenant which did away with much of the horrors in the old testament.

So yes, if you do not want to take every word of the Bible as absolute truth and just follow the teaching of Christ, which is what Christian is by definition, then keep it up..

Being Christian does not define what branch you belong to if any....

What are you suggesting, they should all follow every word to call themselves Christian? What next, go old testament and say if they don't stone girls that aren't virgins when wed they are not Christan? They don't have slaves so they aren't Christian? They aren't beating down your door to kill you for not subscribing to your belief so they aren't Christian? It is not about every word in the bible, and to suggest they do everything the bible says is both stupid and suicidal if you mean it, the religion has evolved. It boils down to interpretation or history of the religions. Some abrahamic religions do not even think Jesus was the son of God, Some do, Some are more old testament, some focus more on the teachings of Christ. If everyone that used a Bible viewed it the same exact way there would only be one Abrahamic religion, there is not.


Christian - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
1Chris·tian

noun \ˈkris-chən, ˈkrish-\
Definition of CHRISTIAN

1
a : one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ

b
(1) : disciple 2 (2) : a member of one of the Churches of Christ separating from the Disciples of Christ in 1906 (3) : a member of the Christian denomination having part in the union of the United Church of Christ concluded in 1961

2
: the hero in Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
#5
I'm not a christian but it drives me nuts when people say ignorant stuff like that. All Christian means is a person that follows the teachings of Christ. Being Christian does not mean you subscribe to the old testament shit and is by far not an obligation to be a douchebag if you use the label. It means you follow the teachings of Christ, whom also brought about the new covenant which did away with much of the horrors in the old testament.

So yes, if you do not want to take every word of the Bible as absolute truth and just follow the teaching of Christ, which is what Christian is by definition, then keep it up..

Being Christian does not define what branch you belong to if any....

What are you suggesting, they should all follow every word to call themselves Christian? What next, go old testament and say if they don't stone girls that aren't virgins when wed they are not Christan? They don't have slaves so they aren't Christian? They aren't beating down your door to kill you for not subscribing to your belief so they aren't Christian? It is not about every word in the bible, and to suggest they do everything the bible says is both stupid and suicidal if you mean it, the religion has evolved. It boils down to interpretation or history of the religions. Some abrahamic religions do not even think Jesus was the son of God, Some do, Some are more old testament, some focus more on the teachings of Christ. If everyone that used a Bible viewed it the same exact way there would only be one Abrahamic religion, there is not.


Christian - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
1Chris·tian

noun \ˈkris-chən, ˈkrish-\
Definition of CHRISTIAN

1
a : one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ

b
(1) : disciple 2 (2) : a member of one of the Churches of Christ separating from the Disciples of Christ in 1906 (3) : a member of the Christian denomination having part in the union of the United Church of Christ concluded in 1961

2
: the hero in Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress
Very well said, I agree with this completely. Being a Christian does not mean you HAVE to follow EVERYTHING the entire Bible says but follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. And it is all subject to interpretation. Just like some Muslims interpret the Koran to mean everyone who is not a Muslim is a nonbeliever and should die but most do not. Should it be argued that anyone who does not isn't a true Muslim?
 

Ilus_Unistus

Registered Member
#6
I'm not a christian but it drives me nuts when people say ignorant stuff like that. All Christian means is a person that follows the teachings of Christ. Being Christian does not mean you subscribe to the old testament shit and is by far not an obligation to be a douchebag if you use the label. It means you follow the teachings of Christ, whom also brought about the new covenant which did away with much of the horrors in the old testament.

So yes, if you do not want to take every word of the Bible as absolute truth and just follow the teaching of Christ, which is what Christian is by definition, then keep it up..

Being Christian does not define what branch you belong to if any....

What are you suggesting, they should all follow every word to call themselves Christian? What next, go old testament and say if they don't stone girls that aren't virgins when wed they are not Christan? They don't have slaves so they aren't Christian? They aren't beating down your door to kill you for not subscribing to your belief so they aren't Christian? It is not about every word in the bible, and to suggest they do everything the bible says is both stupid and suicidal if you mean it, the religion has evolved. It boils down to interpretation or history of the religions. Some abrahamic religions do not even think Jesus was the son of God, Some do, Some are more old testament, some focus more on the teachings of Christ. If everyone that used a Bible viewed it the same exact way there would only be one Abrahamic religion, there is not.


Christian - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
1Chris·tian

noun \ˈkris-chən, ˈkrish-\
Definition of CHRISTIAN

1
a : one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ

b
(1) : disciple 2 (2) : a member of one of the Churches of Christ separating from the Disciples of Christ in 1906 (3) : a member of the Christian denomination having part in the union of the United Church of Christ concluded in 1961

2
: the hero in Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress


Here is some readings for you of the New Testament, please by all means explain how any of this is followed by today's Christians. All handed down by Jesus BTW.

1 Corinthians 11:3-10 " But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ. Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying, disgraces his head. But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying, disgraces her head; for she is one and the same with her whose head is shaved. For if a woman does not cover her head, let her also have her hair cut off; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head. For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man; for indeed man was not created for the woman’s sake, but woman for the man’s sake. Therefore the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels."

1 Corinthians 14:33-35 "for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints. Let the women keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but let them subject themselves, just as the Law also says. And if they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church."

This is just things I found quickly that I am positive not ALL Christians follow although they call themselves Christians, as I said before, Religion has become "selective" as to what is truth or right. If one is Christian and defends its validity but does not follow to the letter of the Bible... what do you call someone like this?
 
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Daemonic

Registered Member
#7
Here is some readings for you of the New Testament, please by all means explain how any of this is followed by today's Christians. All handed down by Jesus BTW.

1 Corinthians 11:3-10 " But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ. Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying, disgraces his head. But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying, disgraces her head; for she is one and the same with her whose head is shaved. For if a woman does not cover her head, let her also have her hair cut off; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head. For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man; for indeed man was not created for the woman’s sake, but woman for the man’s sake. Therefore the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels."

1 Corinthians 14:33-35 "for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints. Let the women keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but let them subject themselves, just as the Law also says. And if they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church."

This is just things I found quickly that I am positive not ALL Christians follow although they call themselves Christians, as I said before, Religion has become "selective" as to what is truth or right. If one is Christian and defends its validity but does not follow to the letter of the Bible... what do you call someone like this?
Belief in someones teachings does not mean you have to follow every word they say. During that time women were viewed differently and played a different role in society so I'm not surprised by those quotes. Anyway, you still call them Christian because they believe in the teachings of Christ. If you have any non-offensive suggestions on what to call people that belive in Christ and don't follow every word of the Bible I'm open to suggestions.
 

Gavik

Registered Member
#8
Belief in someones teachings does not mean you have to follow every word they say. During that time women were viewed differently and played a different role in society so I'm not surprised by those quotes. Anyway, you still call them Christian because they believe in the teachings of Christ. If you have any non-offensive suggestions on what to call people that belive in Christ and don't follow every word of the Bible I'm open to suggestions.
Then why use any of the bible? You can't pick and choose "the word of god." It's like reading Hamlet and saying "I liked the part where talks to the skull, but I didn't like how he died in the end so I don't believe in that part."
 

Daemonic

Registered Member
#9
Then why use any of the bible? You can't pick and choose "the word of god." It's like reading Hamlet and saying "I liked the part where talks to the skull, but I didn't like how he died in the end so I don't believe in that part."
There is no one answer to this question, and I have no place answering "why" since I'm not a Christian. I'm sure if you ask 100 Christians that same question you would get a number of different reasons. People interpret and follow their belief systems for a number of different reasons.

Also, you compared a tragedy by Shakespeare to a spiritual text. Two completely different types of writing. There are plenty of writings that are up to interpretation and do not have to be followed by every word. For example, you can like a philosopher, but not have to agree with every word they say, and ignore what you disagree with.

Anyway, that isn't the point my post was trying to get across. They are still Christians even if they do not follow every word of the Bible.
 

Bananas

Endangered Species
#10
Then why use any of the bible? You can't pick and choose "the word of god." It's like reading Hamlet and saying "I liked the part where talks to the skull, but I didn't like how he died in the end so I don't believe in that part."
I have to disagree with you here. This view is no better than the fundamentalist book worshippers who argue that you cant pick and choose the word of God. The thing is their is absolutely no reason to say you cant, and secondly there is absolutely no reason to believe it is (ie. the bible).

I know of Christains who do not believe in the bible, they believe in JC and most of the events that went with him, they believe in his teachings and his message to be one of the most corrupted books in history (...and other than the first two points I agree with them;)).

The point is, you can pick and choose. Anyone who says otherwise is a hypocrite as they picked and chose to interpret whoever interpretation/narrative/story/selection/etc.. that was picked and chosen.