If Obama were actually a Socialist

Jeanie

still nobody's bitch
V.I.P.
#1
or even a Democratic Socialist and not a right-leaning Republican wannabe,

He would've pushed for single-payer health care, and he would never have let the insurance companies continue to hold so much power over the health of US citizens.

He would establish a public works program to put Americans back to work.

He would not have chosen Ben Bernanke to head the Federal Reserve.

He would raise minimum wage to $10 an hour.

He would have nationalized Citicorp and Bank of America instead of bailing them out; he would've forced any banks taking federal bailout money to freeze foreclosures and interest rates on mortgages and credit cards.

He would have raised marginal income tax, capital gains tax, and the estate tax.

He would press for worker participation in management decsions.

He would never have expanded the war in Afghanistan and he would be bringing our troops home from Iraq.

He would address poverty and the yawning wealth gap betwen the richest and poorest US citizens.

He would never NEVER have defended the gross salaries of CEOs by saying it's all just part of the free-market system.

I still do not understand why Obama is not the darling of Republicans, Tea Partiers, and conservatives in general--he should be their poster boy.
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
#2
or even a Democratic Socialist and not a right-leaning Republican wannabe,

He would've pushed for single-payer health care, and he would never have let the insurance companies continue to hold so much power over the health of US citizens.
He wanted to, he also wants to win reelection.

He would establish a public works program to put Americans back to work.
Cause even he knows that would fail.

He would not have chosen Ben Bernanke to head the Federal Reserve.
He didn't, Bush did.

He would raise minimum wage to $10 an hour.
He can't because 1) Congress passes legislation; 2) Even he knows that would cause major inflation; and 3) He wants to win reelection.

He would have nationalized Citicorp and Bank of America instead of bailing them out; he would've forced any banks taking federal bailout money to freeze foreclosures and interest rates on mortgages and credit cards.
I'm willing to bet he REALLY wants to, but he again he can only do so much Constitutionally.

He would have raised marginal income tax, capital gains tax, and the estate tax.
Let's wait on this one.

He would press for worker participation in management decsions.
Even he would have an extremely hard time getting anyone to accept that. What authority does he have to dictate to any business how to make decisions?

He would never have expanded the war in Afghanistan and he would be bringing our troops home from Iraq.
How is this socialist or capitalist for that matter?

He would address poverty and the yawning wealth gap betwen the richest and poorest US citizens.
He tried with his stimulus plan, it's been a colassal failure.

He would never NEVER have defended the gross salaries of CEOs by saying it's all just part of the free-market system.
What else is he supposed to say? It IS part of the free-market system.

I still do not understand why Obama is not the darling of Republicans, Tea Partiers, and conservatives in general--he should be their poster boy.
Because everything he has done has been a failure?

I don't see how any of these prove he isn't a socialist? Not saying that he is, and you're using the most extreme definition of the word.
 

Jeanie

still nobody's bitch
V.I.P.
#3
in all honesty I stole this from a friend, I did not write it myself. I just wanted to put forth the argument that while people on the right are horrified about what he's doing to our country, those of us who truly are Socialist/Democratic Socialist are not even a little bit happy with him.

It was just food for thought, I didn't expect a point by point argument.
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
#4
in all honesty I stole this from a friend, I did not write it myself. I just wanted to put forth the argument that while people on the right are horrified about what he's doing to our country, those of us who truly are Socialist/Democratic Socialist are not even a little bit happy with him.

It was just food for thought, I didn't expect a point by point argument.
Sorry then, I couldn't help myself:p

See, those of us on the right make the same argument about Bush. With all his spending and increasing the size of government we wonder why liberals hated him so much.
 

SmilinSilhouette

Registered Member
#5
in all honesty I stole this from a friend, I did not write it myself. I just wanted to put forth the argument that while people on the right are horrified about what he's doing to our country, those of us who truly are Socialist/Democratic Socialist are not even a little bit happy with him.

It was just food for thought, I didn't expect a point by point argument.
:lol: Just wait 'till I get home! :lol:

I would do it now but I can't parse quote very well on my iPhone. You shouldn't be disappointed as I will point out later.
 

Wade8813

Registered Member
#6
or even a Democratic Socialist and not a right-leaning Republican wannabe,

I still do not understand why Obama is not the darling of Republicans, Tea Partiers, and conservatives in general--he should be their poster boy.
I think you're doing the same thing you accuse Republicans of doing - mislabeling Obama :lol:

If Obama wanted to be a Republican, he wouldn't make sure everyone he nominated is very pro-abortion, regardless of a lack of qualifications.

He wouldn't have passed the health care bill.

He wouldn't have removed restrictions on embryonic stem-cell research

He wouldn't be pushing the removal of Don't ask/don't tell (admittedly, there are more and more right leaning voters who agree with repealing it, but that's another topic).


BTW - suddenly increasing the minimum wage to $10/hour would probably devastate the economy. Companies would crank up prices to avoid facing huge cuts in profit, which means any money people had saved up would devalue drastically.
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
#7
BTW - suddenly increasing the minimum wage to $10/hour would probably devastate the economy. Companies would crank up prices to avoid facing huge cuts in profit, which means any money people had saved up would devalue drastically.
And would push the unemployment rate to above 20%. It would be catastrophic.
 

Gavik

Registered Member
#8
He wanted to, he also wants to win reelection.
Obama never seriously pushed single payer himself. He had the seats to push through whatever he wanted. Single payer = socialism. What was passed was simply a bill forcing people to pay for medical insurance. He actively solicited democratic congressmen to pass this version of the bill.

Speaking of seats, the reason the bill got so neutered and convoluted was because the republicans demanded bipartisanship, amended it to make sure the democrats didn't get what the "wanted," then voted against it. A real socialist would have used their political power to push through something to help the public. American citizens didn't get health care reform, the insurance companies just got more customers.

Cause even he knows that would fail.
No, because Wall Street told him that the taxpayers' money would be better spent on their CEO bonuses rather than creating jobs, and he did as he was told.

He didn't, Bush did.
Any real socialist (or real statesman of any ideology, for that matter) would have audited the fed and shut it down.

He can't because 1) Congress passes legislation; 2) Even he knows that would cause major inflation; and 3) He wants to win reelection.

I'm willing to bet he REALLY wants to, but he again he can only do so much Constitutionally.
So where is it in the constitution that you can hold suspects without trial and target anyone for assassination anywhere in the world? If he wanted to do this and could get away with it, he would have. Problem is, he doesn't call the shots on matters like this. The private banks do.

Even he would have an extremely hard time getting anyone to accept that. What authority does he have to dictate to any business how to make decisions?
Probably through unions laws or something, but I'm not really gonna defend this one.

How is this socialist or capitalist for that matter?
Socialism is generally anti-war, since every dollar spent on bullets is a dollar that will never be spent on food for starving families in their own country. But not necessarily.

He tried with his stimulus plan, it's been a colassal failure.
It wasn't aimed at closing and class gaps, nor was it meant to do anything but put money in the pockets of bankers.

What else is he supposed to say? It IS part of the free-market system.
Is getting a bailout part of that too?

I don't see how any of these prove he isn't a socialist? Not saying that he is, and you're using the most extreme definition of the word.
Extreme compared to what?

Also, with regards to reelection, anyone who was truly a socialist (or truly believed in any political idea) wouldn't care. However, that's simply not how America works. Of course we all know this, but the point is that he's really not interested in shaking up the status quo.

If Obama wanted to be a Republican, he wouldn't make sure everyone he nominated is very pro-abortion, regardless of a lack of qualifications.
Aside from Eugenicists, no one is really pro-abortion.

He wouldn't have passed the health care bill.
Because McCain never put forward a plan for health care reform on the campaign. And as I said, the bill doesn't help the average family get better coverage.

He wouldn't be pushing the removal of Don't ask/don't tell (admittedly, there are more and more right leaning voters who agree with repealing it, but that's another topic).
Anyone else see the crushing irony of republicans spewing this "defend america, spend more on the military" bullshit while wanting to kick out key personnel based on arbitrary qualities? I think the Onion's headline: "Repeal Of 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Paves Way For Gay Sex Right On Battlefield, Opponents Fantasize" fits well with the stance.

BTW - suddenly increasing the minimum wage to $10/hour would probably devastate the economy. Companies would crank up prices to avoid facing huge cuts in profit, which means any money people had saved up would devalue drastically.
That's what they said when it was first introduced. I'm not gonna defend a plan of "Just raise it $10 today, right now without telling anyone before we do it," but raising the minimum wage is definitely an option.
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
#9
Obama never seriously pushed single payer himself. He had the seats to push through whatever he wanted. Single payer = socialism. What was passed was simply a bill forcing people to pay for medical insurance. He actively solicited democratic congressmen to pass this version of the bill.

Speaking of seats, the reason the bill got so neutered and convoluted was because the republicans demanded bipartisanship, amended it to make sure the democrats didn't get what the "wanted," then voted against it. A real socialist would have used their political power to push through something to help the public. American citizens didn't get health care reform, the insurance companies just got more customers.
What he originally wanted and what he eventually got are different because of the reaction to it, not because he didn't want a single-payer system.


No, because Wall Street told him that the taxpayers' money would be better spent on their CEO bonuses rather than creating jobs, and he did as he was told.
I disagree.



Any real socialist (or real statesman of any ideology, for that matter) would have audited the fed and shut it down.
Agreed, but that wasn't what was stated. What WAS stated was he picked Bernacke to head the Fed which is false.





So where is it in the constitution that you can hold suspects without trial and target anyone for assassination anywhere in the world? If he wanted to do this and could get away with it, he would have. Problem is, he doesn't call the shots on matters like this. The private banks do.
What does another president ignoring the Constitution have to do with anything?






Socialism is generally anti-war, since every dollar spent on bullets is a dollar that will never be spent on food for starving families in their own country. But not necessarily.
Socialists spend money feeding people in their country? Really? Is that why the standard of living in Western Berlin was so much higher than in Eastern Berlin? Is that why people in Cuba are starving now?


It wasn't aimed at closing and class gaps, nor was it meant to do anything but put money in the pockets of bankers.
No, it was aimed at helping the economy and it failed.



Is getting a bailout part of that too?
No, but I'm not defending the bailout.

Extreme compared to what?
Not compared to anything, when did I compare anything? All I said was the statement is going by the most extreme definition.

Also, with regards to reelection, anyone who was truly a socialist (or truly believed in any political idea) wouldn't care. However, that's simply not how America works. Of course we all know this, but the point is that he's really not interested in shaking up the status quo.
Let's not pretend Socialists do things because they believe it is the noble thing to do and do not care about personal rewards.





That's what they said when it was first introduced. I'm not gonna defend a plan of "Just raise it $10 today, right now without telling anyone before we do it," but raising the minimum wage is definitely an option.
And it did cause inflation, and the person making minimum wage in 1960 made more in today's dollars than the person making minimum wage now.
 

Wade8813

Registered Member
#10
Also, with regards to reelection, anyone who was truly a socialist (or truly believed in any political idea) wouldn't care. However, that's simply not how America works. Of course we all know this, but the point is that he's really not interested in shaking up the status quo.
I disagree with that - while you certainly wouldn't blatantly violate your ideals for re-election, tempering them might make sense.

Aside from Eugenicists, no one is really pro-abortion.
Sorry - pro the right to have an abortion :rolleyes:.

Because McCain never put forward a plan for health care reform on the campaign. And as I said, the bill doesn't help the average family get better coverage.
The issue wasn't some sort of reform - it was this mess of a reform (also, many people take issue with McCain's supposed conservativeness).

Anyone else see the crushing irony of republicans spewing this "defend america, spend more on the military" bullshit while wanting to kick out key personnel based on arbitrary qualities? I think the Onion's headline: "Repeal Of 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Paves Way For Gay Sex Right On Battlefield, Opponents Fantasize" fits well with the stance.
I'm not arguing the correctness of the policy - just listing reasons that Obama doesn't qualify as Conservative.