Hypothetical - The Perfect World

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Boredie, Apr 13, 2010.

  1. Boredie

    Boredie In need of Entertainment

    From some of the posts here in some of the threads in this forum it seems to me that those who complain about the suffering happening in this world are angry with God (who might exist, in their opinion) for how can any god who has created man would allow them to suffer in any way. Which brings to a lack of belief in said god. Right?

    Now my question to you is, if this world was a perfect place (perfect in your eyes, for I and no one else can define perfection in your own eyes) would you then be more inclined to believe in God or accept him since the reason for not believing in him (on this topic) no longer exists?
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  2. Ember

    Ember Registered Member

    I can't answer to your question since I'm not a believer, but I don't see why men could be so arrogant to be angry with God. Didn't God create men to be free and chose about their own life? Then he will judge them after mortal life.
  3. Bananas

    Bananas Endangered Species

    No, I would not. first I should point out it is not for the suffering that I do not believe. You have to believe in the first place and it is this contradiction of the believer to the suffering that leads to disbelief. I think the most famous case of this is probably Darwin and the death of his daughter.
  4. Boredie

    Boredie In need of Entertainment

    It is to such people, mainly, that I've directed the question to.
    I couldn't find sufficient material on the subject online, can you provide me with a link please?
  5. Bananas

    Bananas Endangered Species

    I was referencing this book;
    Annie's Box: Charles Darwin, His Daughter and Human Evolution: Amazon.co.uk: Randal Keynes: Books

    However having a look around online I came across this quite interesting article that throws a spanner in the works to the theory;
    Did the death of his daughter cause Darwin to give up Christianity? - Evolution - Zimbio

    I understand that, its just an important factor in this perfect world scenario. Ive seen theists argue that God does good and bad, God is good and bad, Gods actions are always good it is humans who percieve them as bad, and that bad is just a juxtaposition of what makes things good..... but all of the above have one underlaying factor....intelligent cause.

    Now when someone says "I do not believe in God because of the suffering in the world" what exactly are they referring to; intelligent cause or God. Im going off subject here but are they cojoined. (Take the belief in the Norse god Odin as an example; our suffering is to humour him, he is really quite malevolent towards humans. Its nothing to do with reason or purpose, we are insignificant beings to the Norse Gods. It is only with certain religions where humans have elevated themselves to a higher divinity that we feel we have this relevance and importance).
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2010
  6. ExpectantlyIronic

    ExpectantlyIronic e̳̳̺͕ͬ̓̑̂ͮͦͣ͒͒h̙ͦ̔͂?̅̂ ̾͗̑

    I don't know that I can conceive of an utterly perfect world, but if the world were free of natural disasters, the so-called "problem of evil" would be in much worse shape. Absent so strong a reason for thinking there is no omnibenevolent deity, I would be more inclined to believe. Though, I consider the text of the Bible to contradict the notion of an omnibenevolent deity as I would conceive it (e.g. God turns a women into a pillar of salt for doing nothing more than looking back at the destruction of Sodom), so I would likely never believe that that God is omnibenevolent. Also, there would still be the issue of a lack of what I would call "common-sense evidence" for the existence of God, in that nothing I've observed seems suggestive of such a thing in particular.

    So, yes, I would be more inclined to believe.
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2010
  7. AngelsPeak

    AngelsPeak Wanna play?

    Maybe I'm reading your response wrong, but you say you're not a believer, then go on to talk about God creating man and judging them after their mortal life??:confused:

    Are you confused or is it just me?
  8. Ramman

    Ramman Registered Member

    Ram: Perhaps we should contemplate what suffering is.

    JESUS is GOD. Did Jesus Suffer? Did his Holy Mother suffer having to stand by while her only Son was Crucified?

    Did all the Apostles suffer? How many early Christians suffered? How many martyrs suffered martyrdom rather than deny their faith.

    Do we commit sins? Lots of Sins over our entire lives and thus offend GOD? How do we make restitution to GOD for those Sins?

    Jesus suffered for our SINS not his. So if we are made to suffer for ours and thus merit heaven for eternity is it worth it?

    Lets say we have a sentence for our sins of One Thousand years in Purgatory coming due to our offenses in this life. But that sentence can be mitigated by a two year losing battle with throat cancer on earth - is it a good deal?

    Certainly when someone has the perspective of this world and all its values solely - they only have a limited perspective on Suffering IMO

  9. AngelsPeak

    AngelsPeak Wanna play?

    I'm not sure I understand what you're saying? Jesus didn't die for our sins so that we could be given some sort of living sentence to avoid purgatory, he did so that our sins could be forgiven. You make it sound as though any suffering on earth is so we can be written a direct ticket to heaven.
  10. Ember

    Ember Registered Member

    Hi AngelsPeak! :) I'm not a believer but I grew up like a catholic from birth to the age of 20 and I'm still involved with church for many reasons, so I have an idea about how a good believer should act (theoretically). And in my opinion, being angry with the God you believe in, is not the best thing you can do :D
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2010

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