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Religion Halal Meat

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
I understand this is happening in another country (for now) and from what I've read the majority of the posters are ok with Subway's decision.
What I don't understand then, is why so many people chastise and protest against a bakery or another business that doesn't want ot make a cake for a couple because the type of wedding being performed goes against their religious beliefs.
Why is it ok for Subway to change their menu and discriminate due to religious beliefs, but not ok for those who live in the land of the free to do the same?
That's a great question and a great point. This is discriminatory towards those who aren't Muslim, I don't know why anybody would be ok with this.

I'm Catholic. During Lent I don't eat meat on Fridays (my parents and my uncle subscribe to the old Catholic tradition of not eating meat on Fridays ever, but the Church has changed that to just during Lent). We eat fish on the Fridays during Lent and on Ash Wednesday. Many restaurants down here have Friday Lent specials to lure those who observe those fasting rules, which is great business. In the building I work in there is a small cafe that serves sandwiches and salads and soup mostly, but they offer one hot meal a day. Friday is hamburger day. As a practicing Catholic I obviously don't eat that hamburger on Lenten Fridays and I instead get a fish plate from somewhere else. Who am I to insist they serve fish and demand they not serve hamburgers? Not everybody is Catholic, not everybody is a practicing Catholic, how presumptuous would I be to insist and demand that cafe get rid of hamburger Fridays during Lent? If I did insist they do so, would everyone here who thinks this is ok support me in my complaining to that cafe until they give in to pressure and remove hamburger Fridays during Lent and deny those who DO want a hamburger?

As Sim said, it's the free market. I just choose to eat somewhere else because of MY beliefs on Lenten Fridays. It's not the free market however when I insist the free market subscribe to my beliefs.
 

sunrise

aka ginger warlock
V.I.P.
What I find most interesting in the whole story of Subway and the selling of certain meats is at least in the UK, very little information is actually out there. I have not spoken with any Muslims myself so I cannot judge them or what they have asked to be done but all we have heard is the UK Media saying the reasons this has been done and that Subway have caved to pressure yet no-one from the Muslim community has been asked in the papers or indeed the media as to what their opinion of it is as far as I can see, I am yet to even come across a Subway that is even affected by this!

I did do a quick search and found this though:

UK: Subway caves to Muslim demands, removes pork, sells only halal meat

In the caption on a photo accompanying this article, the reliably dimwitted Daily Mail writes: “Nearly 200 Subway branches across the UK and Ireland have cut out ham and bacon, selling only halal meat, in response to demand from their multicultural customers.”

Their “multicultural customers”? And exactly what multiplicity of cultures demanded that Subway drop ham and bacon and sell only halal meat? Most likely that demand came from people of only one culture, and has rendered these 200 Subway restaurants less multicultural than before: now non-Muslims in Britain who would like to enjoy a Chicken and Bacon Ranch Melt or an Italian sub with pepperoni are out of luck: Muslims and Sharia-compliant dhimmis are the only ones who will be served.

Source: jihadwatch
This is what I hate the most about certain parts of the British media and certain portions of the British public. Their is so much hatred and fear based on very little that the minute a mere hint of "muslim culture disrupting british living" comes up with even with very little basis everything goes mad, I have seen it and heard it time and again but I have to say, most Muslims I have ever known are perfectly nice, decent and hard working people.
 

Hilander

Free Spirit
Staff member
V.I.P.
Just because they are nice and hard working doesn't mean they didn't demand Subway change their menu.

I think its fine they serve halal meat but I don't think its fine they stopped serving what other people want. Its Subway's business though and I don't have to eat there.

What would make me mad is if they started demanding I follow Sharia law like they do in some countries by making it the law of the land.
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
Anecdotal evidence of Muslims doesn't prove whether there was any pressure here or not. I don't know if there was, but the elimination of bacon altogether leads me to lean towards there was.
 

sunrise

aka ginger warlock
V.I.P.
Just because they are nice and hard working doesn't mean they didn't demand Subway change their menu.
Sorry Hil but at what point did I claim they did? What I am actually talking about is the attitude of a lot of people within the UK overall, I possibly should have made the clearer however.
------
Anecdotal evidence of Muslims doesn't prove whether there was any pressure here or not. I don't know if there was, but the elimination of bacon altogether leads me to lean towards there was.
Sorry CO, but once again, this elimination? It was only a certain number of stores that were effected, this does not fall into these words either:

Entire
Outright
Completely
Absolute

Oh and also? The "Anecdotal evidence"? I am not sure if it could be considered as evidence and I am pretty sure I did not claim this to be evidence of anything, just an article I located that I thought was a different perspective :)
 
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CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
But it WAS eliminated in THOSE stores. Whether bacon was eliminated or not at the Subway down the street has no bearing on whether there was pressure from Muslim groups to have it eliminated in THOSE stores. I know some hard working Muslims also, that doesn't mean Muslims in those communities didn't pressure those Subways to eliminate bacon in those stores. And if it it's just a small group of Muslims, I still find it disgusting. I would't force my beliefs on anyone and I wouldn't want any place eliminating meat on Lenten Fridays.
 

sunrise

aka ginger warlock
V.I.P.
But it WAS eliminated in THOSE stores. Whether bacon was eliminated or not at the Subway down the street has no bearing on whether there was pressure from Muslim groups to have it eliminated in THOSE stores.
Sadly I don't think we will ever really know so I cannot prove if I am right or wrong and neither can you, we can only speculate on how it would appear to look from the outside and how this situation was handle in hindsight.

I know some hard working Muslims also, that doesn't mean Muslims in those communities didn't pressure those Subways to eliminate bacon in those stores.
This is what I hate the most about certain parts of the British media and certain portions of the British public. Their is so much hatred and fear based on very little that the minute a mere hint of "muslim culture disrupting british living" comes up with even with very little basis everything goes mad, I have seen it and heard it time and again but I have to say, most Muslims I have ever known are perfectly nice, decent and hard working people.
Above is a direct quote of something I said previously, I wish to post it again to make sure it comes across clearly. As I said before CO I was referring to how things are shown in the media to people within the UK itself about how muslim communities are something over all to be feared. I was not referring to Subway in this instance but how Muslim communities are sometimes seen and treated within the UK as the worst thing to happen the UK and that they are the reason the UK has gone downhill and is on the verge of collapse.

And if it it's just a small group of Muslims, I still find it disgusting. I would't force my beliefs on anyone and I wouldn't want any place eliminating meat on Lenten Fridays.
And I agree with you, it is bad that a SMALL group want to put this in place, but the way it has been spoken off in the UK and on the news (and indeed here in some posts) this is a problem of ALL muslims and is something ALL muslims have asked to be done - and once again, I have seen nothing to support that.
 
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CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
Sadly I don't think we will ever really know so I cannot prove if I am right or wrong and neither can you, we can only speculate on how it would appear to look from the outside and how this situation was handle in hindsight.

I agree. As I said earlier based on the evidence I can't help but lean towards pressure from a segment of the Muslim community pressuring these Subways to eliminate bacon, but I can't prove or disprove that.

Above is a direct quote of something I said previously, I wish to post it again to make sure it comes across clearly. As I said before CO I was referring to how things are shown in the media to people within the UK itself about how muslim communities are something over all to be feared. I was not referring to Subway in this instance but how Muslim communities are sometimes seen and treated within the UK as the worst thing to happen the UK and that they are the reason the UK has gone downhill and is on the verge of collapse.
I agree, the media here to some extent does the same. At the same, when you have people threaten and actually kill, ie Makin Marcos, Rashad Khalifa, Theo Van Gogh, Rubina Bibi, amongst a whole multitude of others, nevermind the endless numbers of Christians killed this very day, those communities kind of bring a lot of those things upon themselves. True, we can't blame ALL Muslims for these actions, it's patently unfair, at the same time it's hard for people not to.


And I agree with you, it is bad that a SMALL group want to put this in place, but the way it has been spoken off in the UK and on the news (and indeed here in some posts) this is a problem of ALL muslims and is something ALL muslims have asked to be done - and once again, I have seen nothing to support that.
No, there is nothing to support the idea this is coming from ALL Muslims, but there is enough to conclude a group of Muslims are forcing their beliefs on everyone else in that community.
 

Pugz

Ms. Malone
V.I.P.
What would make me mad is if they started demanding I follow Sharia law like they do in some countries by making it the law of the land.
In some parts of England they are - but that's for a different topic.

My friend and I go to Subway because there's no macdonalds in his town any more (I joked the Muslims forced them to close :lol:) and, honestly, there are plenty of salad options to get; so why, if Subway were approached by angry customers, didn't they offer the salad option, rather than giving into them?
 

ysabel

/ˈɪzəˌbɛl/ pink 5
The only thing annoying for me here is..."what? no bacon?" :lol:

- If Subway wants to modify their menu (for whatever reason) then it is their right. If I don't go there it will probably because of the lack of bacon (if I feel like having one) and not as a protest to them changing the menu per se.

- Halal food don't taste different from non halal food. I suppose it is the same with kosher although I can only guess since it is halal that I've eaten many times.

- I don't see it as discrimination (the type to be concerned about) for them to stop serving bacon/pork. Not all restaurants cater to what I want, it won't be the first one where I cannot get what I eat. I don't see it as a message of Stop Eating Here. Technically, I could still eat there, if I just order something else. I still have a choice. Their tuna sandwiches are great!

On the other hand, if it were a restaurant that only serves a variety of food (could also be halal/kosher) food and it suddenly just serves only pork...then I can imagine that some people will take it as sign that they're unwanted customers as there is nothing left in there for them to eat without going against their religion.

- So while I don't take offense to the menu modification (that's big coming from a bacon lover), Subway could have handled this better by simply just adding halal to their menu. It's done in restaurants here. They have special vegetarian meal, halal meal, etc. I bet if there were a lot of practicing Catholics here, they would also do what they have in other countries where they add Lenten specials on their menu. Fastfoods would still have their burgers and stuff, but they add Shrimp or Fish sandwiches that only appear during Lent - either the whole period or its Fridays.
 
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