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Religion Halal Meat

sunrise

aka ginger warlock
V.I.P.
Recently there has a been a bit of upset to say the least here in the UK about Subway not including meat that is not deemed to be inline with the laws of Halal. I have done a bit of poking around and they way people were going on about it you would think that every Subway is bowing down to Muslim rules, now this is not entirely true, only a certain amount of them have done this and to be honest I have not seen many that have taken up this way of doing things.

I was unsure of what exactly Halal means so I did a bit of looking up and found out that it means thus:

Dhabīḥah (ذَبِيْحَة) is the prescribed method of slaughtering all meat sources, excluding fish and other sea-life, per Islamic law. This method of slaughtering animals consists of using a well-sharpened knife to make a swift, deep incision that cuts the front of the throat, the carotid artery, windpipe, and jugular veins to cause the least amount of suffering to the animal. The head of an animal that is slaughtered using halal methods is aligned with the qiblah. In addition to the direction, permitted animals should be slaughtered upon utterance of the Islamic prayer "in the name of God."
Now I personally don't have a problem with this, if this practice leads to less suffering for an animal I am personally all for it. However that is not the point in this great United Kingdom. People are not angry that Halal exists but are angry that this is the UK changing to accommodate a religion that is not the main religion of the UK and blimey sir, we cannot have that now can we? The way people blew up about this on places like Facebook and also over hearing people it seems that people think this is just another step of people being forced to bow down to a religion and having to accommodate for people who "do not belong here in the first place", this sort of view doesn't upset me; it disgusts me, that a number of people still think this way just seems wrong.

If you are outside of UK do you have man outlets that provide halal meet? Does it bother you and do you even consider it to really affect you? Does it bother you? If you are in the UK how do you feel about it?
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
I don't think that's the issue, the issue is those Subways who ONLY offer Halal meat. I personally don't care if a Subway offers it, it's the free market and they can offer whatever they want, but I DO care if they ONLY offer Halal meat. If I don't want it prepared that way I do object to them bowing to pressure from certain groups. If I lived in the UK and the local Subway only offered it that way I wouldn't frequent Subway anymore and would let them know why.
 

sunrise

aka ginger warlock
V.I.P.
It is only certain meats that are not being served in certain Subways; ie Bacon.

I am pleased to see that some do not feel this way including myself and others around me however the problem does seem to be for a lot of people that Subway are seemingly bowing down to pressure however that is not the case because not all of the Subways are being affected only some of them.

Is this such a bad thing though? Is it really such a problem that there is a certain level of sympathy and lets face it can only be good for business.
 

Sim

Registered Member
If you are outside of UK do you have man outlets that provide halal meet? Does it bother you and do you even consider it to really affect you? Does it bother you? If you are in the UK how do you feel about it?
There are a couple of (fast) food shops in Berlin too that offer only Halal food. But those are food shops run by Muslim immigrants anyway, such as Turkish. For example, Turkish Döner Kebap stores are rather popular among Germans -- and it would be absurd to demand them changing the original recipies of their Turkish food to include pork. People go there to eat Turkish food.

Another thing are chicken fast food shops. The only meat they're selling is Halal anyway, since they only have chicken in various forms -- no pork, but neither other Halal meats such as beef. I don't see a problem there. People go there to eat chicken.

I don't see what's the problem when certain shops exclude certain kinds of meat. If they want to damage their revenues by skipping pork when people want it, their choice. If you desperately want pork, go eat somewhere else.

There's also a burger shop in my environment that claims they are "Halal and Kosher" (with an image of a cartoon pig crossed out). I'm no expert, but apparently, for many Muslims and Jews, "Halal" and "Kosher" is not taken so seriously, so they don't need this special slaughter ritual, but they just take care not to eat pork.
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Oh, and as for Subway's, I probably wouldn't even notice. I've never eaten bacon there anyway. Usually, I take tuna, sometimes veggie pads or roast beef.
 
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sunrise

aka ginger warlock
V.I.P.
There has been a news story today where shops are not displaying the information and people are asking the question should the information be displayed? From a group set of interviews a number of people were basically not bothered, the response seemed to be as long as the meat is okay to eat then why not sell it in supermarkets? Others said that most people who wanted Halal meat knew where to go to get it so does it really affect people that much?
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
It is only certain meats that are not being served in certain Subways; ie Bacon.

I am pleased to see that some do not feel this way including myself and others around me however the problem does seem to be for a lot of people that Subway are seemingly bowing down to pressure however that is not the case because not all of the Subways are being affected only some of them.

Is this such a bad thing though? Is it really such a problem that there is a certain level of sympathy and lets face it can only be good for business.
It's not about sympathy, it is about bowing to pressure. I like bacon and at times I like the chicken bacon ranch sandwich. If a Subway isn't going to offer bacon even though I want it because some people down the street don't want bacon served there then yes, it is a problem. I respect their choice enough to not care if Subway serves Halal meet even though I don't eat it, I expect the same respect in return. If they don't want to eat bacon don't eat it, but to deny me that choice is wrong.
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There are a couple of (fast) food shops in Berlin too that offer only Halal food. But those are food shops run by Muslim immigrants anyway, such as Turkish. For example, Turkish Döner Kebap stores are rather popular among Germans -- and it would be absurd to demand them changing the original recipies of their Turkish food to include pork. People go there to eat Turkish food.

Another thing are chicken fast food shops. The only meat they're selling is Halal anyway, since they only have chicken in various forms -- no pork, but neither other Halal meats such as beef. I don't see a problem there. People go there to eat chicken.

I don't see what's the problem when certain shops exclude certain kinds of meat. If they want to damage their revenues by skipping pork when people want it, their choice. If you desperately want pork, go eat somewhere else.

There's also a burger shop in my environment that claims they are "Halal and Kosher" (with an image of a cartoon pig crossed out). I'm no expert, but apparently, for many Muslims and Jews, "Halal" and "Kosher" is not taken so seriously, so they don't need this special slaughter ritual, but they just take care not to eat pork.
------
Oh, and as for Subway's, I probably wouldn't even notice. I've never eaten bacon there anyway. Usually, I take tuna, sometimes veggie pads or roast beef.
The problem is if you don't like pork and don't eat pork who are you to tell the business person to not serve me pork if I am willing to eat it and it otherwise would be sold? How is any one customer or a group of customers more important than others?

I BBQ often. I go to a specific butcher and buy fajitas, ribs, and smoked sausage when I fire up the grill. He sells other cuts of meat but I don't buy it and I couldn't care less what else he sells and who buys it. Who am I to say "stop selling pork because my religion doesn't permit the consumption of pork"?
 
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Pugz

Ms. Malone
V.I.P.
I didn't even know Subway did bacon, but I did know the subway in my friends town served Halal; it wasn't a huge sign and I just happened to see it at the counter, but I'm not bothered - I probably couldn't tell the difference.

However, if religious people have a certain diet then they should be opening their own butchers and restaurants - not demanding they take things of other businesses menus; we wouldn't walk into their establishments and demand they serve our meat.
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
I didn't even know Subway did bacon, but I did know the subway in my friends town served Halal; it wasn't a huge sign and I just happened to see it at the counter, but I'm not bothered - I probably couldn't tell the difference.

However, if religious people have a certain diet then they should be opening their own butchers and restaurants - not demanding they take things of other businesses menus; we wouldn't walk into their establishments and demand they serve our meat.
Exactly. It's Subway. Subway serves bacon. If you don't like bacon, don't order it. If them selling bacon offends you I suggest 1) seeing a psychiatrist since there is nothing offensive about it; and 2) eating elsewhere. It's not rocket science.
 

Sim

Registered Member
The problem is if you don't like pork and don't eat pork who are you to tell the business person to not serve me pork if I am willing to eat it and it otherwise would be sold? How is any one customer or a group of customers more important than others?

I BBQ often. I go to a specific butcher and buy fajitas, ribs, and smoked sausage when I fire up the grill. He sells other cuts of meat but I don't buy it and I couldn't care less what else he sells and who buys it. Who am I to say "stop selling pork because my religion doesn't permit the consumption of pork"?
If that's what happened, I'd agree. But as far as I know, no Muslim ever told Subway they shouldn't sell pork. It was a business decision by Subway, because they think they can make more money that way. So what's the problem?
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
If that's what happened, I'd agree. But as far as I know, no Muslim ever told Subway they shouldn't sell pork. It was a business decision by Subway, because they think they can make more money that way. So what's the problem?
That's not my understanding. Why would Subway voluntarily stop selling bacon at only those locations? Why would they risk losing customers who wanted to buy bacon?

According to the DailyMail, bacon was removed after a "strong demand" from the Muslim community.

Subway removes pork from stores after 'strong demand' from Muslims | Mail Online
 
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