Gun Crime: Blame?

Merc

Certified Shitlord
V.I.P.
#1
In the wonderful world of gun crime, it seems a lot of people place the blame on one of a few sources:

The actual guns: I'm sorry folks, but this is the most inane argument of the bunch. It's like blaming the alcohol for drunk driving crashes. The point is that the person makes a conscious decision to drink or use a gun. A bottle or a Glock doesn't just hop into a person's hands. Why don't we start blaming pencils for poor test grades? I think the problem is that a lot of people have this thinking that removing guns from society will cure the problem (if not immediately, over time). Now, by "over time", I'm betting that would be at least two hundred years of social development before people finally let go of guns. Hell, by then who knows how far weapons tech will be advanced. I always try and remind these folk of prohibition and the fact that if you ban something demanded by the public, you're going to give the criminals power, no matter what. I don't like booze all that much, but I know full well what would happen if it was criminalized again.

Gun sellers (legal or not):
Illegal gun sales are probably the biggest problem in terms of actual gun control because no matter how tight the left wing chokes the legal gun markets, there's always black market sales. In my mind, it seems pretty fair to assume that with heavier and more strict gun control laws that there are more illegal sales. Now, that's a hard battle to fight because if you lighten gun control, more people will obviously have access but if you tighten it, more people will turn to criminals and traffickers to buy from. It's a hard situation to solve.

"Nurture":
The argument I side with the most is basically the one that argues that our society has a lot of blame that needs placing on. Gun problems did not exist in the sheer magnitude a hundred years ago that they do today, so why the discrepancy? To me, it's because the media has put a spin on guns as a way of earning respect, power, and wealth. In places where money is scarce, you see a lot of gun crimes probably for similar reasons. It's common knowledge that gangs measure power and respect partially (some of them wholley) on guns. So my argument is that people have been taught the wrong way about guns. Also, according to the FBI, almost 80% of gun crimes involve illegally possessed firearms. This may go to prove that those educated on guns are the least likely to cause crime with them. People who are taught how to handle, care for, and to respect their guns are usually the ones that are the least dangerous.

The gun itself has evolved into a symbol of power, intimidation, greed, evil, and death. When the country was first founded, the gun was a symbol of personal defense, it wasn't politcally incorrect to see a family portrait with the mother, children, and father holding a rifle. Guns were a part of being free. Those who hold onto the second amendment are living in a world where the picture of the modern family has drastically changed.

So where do you think gun crime stems from the most? What changes are necessary? Do you think gun control goes a bit too far sometimes?
 

Mirage

Administrator
Staff member
V.I.P.
#4
or the pople who make the guns
Well it's true that with no guns in the world, nobody would be killed by guns. There are guns though, and billions of them.

As we've seen in England, without guns people will just use knives. It's individuals who are at fault, not the gun manufacturers.

If gun manufacturers are to blame for gun related deaths, then are steak knife manufacturers to blame when somebody kills somebody with a steak knife?

Ask yourself this question, if somebody wanted to kill people, but didn't have access to a gun or guns, would they still kill people?
 

TheOpposition

Registered Member
#5
Precisely my point but with more effort and enthusiasm put in.

If I had to kill someone and didn't have an easy method like a gun I would still kill em, even if I only had my fists.

Guns just make it quicker/easier.
 

Merc

Certified Shitlord
V.I.P.
#6
or the pople who make the guns
See but this is the kind of thinking that needs to disappear. You're perfectly okay with the people who make the guns getting blamed for some dope's brilliant plan to murder a bunch of school kids? It's an ancient comparison, but it's just like blaming pencils for bad test scores. Guns are only tools, it's the people who decide to abuse them that are at fault.
 

pro2A

Hell, It's about time!
#7
So my argument is that people have been taught the wrong way about guns. Also, according to the FBI, almost 80% of gun crimes involve illegally possessed firearms. This may go to prove that those educated on guns are the least likely to cause crime with them. People who are taught how to handle, care for, and to respect their guns are usually the ones that are the least dangerous.
Couldn't have said it better myself Cons :) It has to do with upbringing. I was raised around guns. My father had one in the closet when we lived in Arizona and he always told me about it and taught me about it, but told me never to touch it. I always knew it was there, but never touched it. My grandfather and uncle used to take me out in the desert to go hunting and skeet shooting. I was taught responsible firearm ownership. I would never willingly harm another innocent person with my guns.

These kids that grow up on the street that have no regard for human life and will steel and kill for $20 bucks or their next fix are the ones we need to worry about. They see daddy shoot down some guy on the street and take his wallet, what kind of image does that give the kid about guns?
 

Merc

Certified Shitlord
V.I.P.
#8
Couldn't have said it better myself Cons :) It has to do with upbringing. I was raised around guns. My father had one in the closet when we lived in Arizona and he always told me about it and taught me about it, but told me never to touch it. I always knew it was there, but never touched it. My grandfather and uncle used to take me out in the desert to go hunting and skeet shooting. I was taught responsible firearm ownership. I would never willingly harm another innocent person with my guns.
I mean, people don't need to grow up around guns, but they need education on them which obviously most kids growing up around them tend to get.

These kids that grow up on the street that have no regard for human life and will steel and kill for $20 bucks or their next fix are the ones we need to worry about. They see daddy shoot down some guy on the street and take his wallet, what kind of image does that give the kid about guns?
I don't think it's fair to say they have no regard for human life or will kill for next to nothing, but I think it is fair to say they never learned to respect both human life and firearms. It may also be fair to say that their neighborhood functions on different currency. For some reason, respect and power is earned in ghettos via gun toting and ownership. It's because people have been taught that guns are symbols of extreme power. While that's not entirely untrue, it's not fact. Society made guns the symbols they are today.

People who are uneducated on guns are usually the ones making the problems, not the legal owners who simply hunt or target shoot or just plain like guns. There's nothing wrong with any of that but because guns are this generations new euphemism for "evil", anyone associated with guns tends to carry an air of "evil" as well.
 

pro2A

Hell, It's about time!
#9
There's nothing wrong with any of that but because guns are this generations new euphemism for "evil", anyone associated with guns tends to carry an air of "evil" as well.
I open carry and I tend to get that. In their minds, guns = criminal :shake: and this is simply not true.

It gets old after a while. Once in a while I'll have an inquiry about why I carry openly, and after I explain it people understand more then resent it. To be honest Cons I have no clue where this vendetta against guns began. The first thing I can think of was the gun control act of 1934 which was passed in a futile attempt to stop the mobsters in the big cities of the time. I believe it went down hill from there.
 

Merc

Certified Shitlord
V.I.P.
#10
Like I said, guns transformed from being a symbol of freedom and self-defense to mobster respect. Mobsters found a way to scare people and that's where a lot of stigmatizing against guns began.