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George Bush: Was he the worst President ever?

BigBob

Registered Member
Sadam did not kill 1000's of Americans? The only Americans Saddam killed were the invading kind. Neither did Saddam harbour terrorists, the irony is that modern day Iraq does!
That was my fault. I sometimes talk and don't really pay attention to what I say. Sorry.

I agree that was the case in Afghanistan. Something had to be done about the Taliban there, who hosted al-Qaida.

But Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism. Saddam was a secular dictator who put islamists in jail. Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11, and he had no significant ties to al-Qaida.

You may have a point that sometimes it's good to topple a ruthless dictator and to liberate his people. But that's not what Bush said. He did not say he wants to topple Saddam because he is a genocidal dictator. He lied to the public in the entire world, by claiming Saddam is developing WMD (which were not found). He lied to the world by claiming Saddam has ties to 9/11.

And the whole post-invasion occupation was poorly executed. Between 2003 and 2007, about 600,000 Iraqis have died -- which means that five times the number of Iraqis have died per year after the invasion, than under Saddam's rule. And this blood is on Bush's and America's hands now.

Iraq is in chaos and at the brink of civil war, it may very well happen Shias with ties to Iran take power, or radical islamists. Post-invasion Iraq may destabilize the fragile balance of power in the Middle East entirely.
I do agree with you. Iraq was something we shouldn't have been involved in. Despite what people say, I think we did it for the oil. The first war was needed, in my opinion, and the 2nd war was used to show the world we are bullies.
 

micfranklin

Eviscerator
Babe Ruth said:
do you consider him the worst President of the United States ever?
Absolutely

He's messed up relations with many countries, or at least pushed them from bad to worse. Our country's $13 trillion in debt over a war that didn't need to be fought while completely ignoring the 9/11 mastermind and letting him get away. Not to mention his signing of unconstitutional legislation such as Military Commissions and the Patriot Act.

Oh yeah, and he did a terrible job responding to Hurricane Katrina.
 

Kazmarov

For a Free Scotland
Well, let's run through the other candidates quickly.

James Buchanan- usually mentioned in these types of discussions. Did not intervene after states started seceeded (they did so after the election of 1860, but before Lincoln took office in March), thus making sure the Civil War lasted for four years.

However, I'll cut him some slack on two accounts. Firstly, what makes him a bad president came at the very end of his term, and he was 70 (very, very old in the mid 19th century). Secondly, decades of compromises had delayed the inevitable, and the 'hot potato' fell on him rather than say, Van Buren, or Lincoln.

Warren G. Harding- horrendously corrupt, however his term was only three years before he bit it. Also, nothing terrible came out of his term- in fact, Coolidge immediately watched over years of great prosperity.

Herbert Hoover- Sat through the depression and didn't attempt to dig us out. However, the market crashed very early in his term, so it's like blaming 9/11 entirely on the Bush administration.

Richard Nixon- resigned in disgrace, however the Bush administration has done many other reprehensible things of similar magnitude- they just haven't been thoroughly exposed.

Bush has:

-Used a national tragedy to launch us into an unrelated war on false pretenses, that had been the brainchild of neoconservatives since the early 90's.
-Passed legislation significantly curtailing civil liberties.
-Ended habeus corpus
-Wiretapped the whole country without a warrant
-Sat while torture was conducted at Abu Gharib, Guantanamo Bay, and CIA black sites.
-Launched a flaccid attempt in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, which killed over a thousand people and caused 100 billion dollars in damage.
-Raised the budget deficit and the federal debt to record proportions, overturning Clinton's balanced budget.
-Been unable to solve the health care crisis in this country
-Pushed to drill in wildlife sanctuaries, and just now attempted to lease Arches National Park for drilling.
-Had two Attorney Generals who have been knee-deep in corruption and abuse of the Justice Department.


And so on. It's the sheer range of mistakes and lies that make him the worst president ever. If you look at the other presidents I mentioned, they're known for screwing up one thing. Bush's problems are both domestic and foreign, both social and economic.
 

salsanchezfan

Registered Member
HJeck yes! Two illegal, unjust wars of aggression, The Patriot act, which basically signed away our rights in favor of Homeland Insecurity, allowing deregulation which ruined the economy, cutting taxes on billionaires and raising them on the poor and middle class, allowing 9/11 to occur even though there was warnings about it for months, etc etc...

Right up there with James Buchanan, John Adams, and Richard Nixon, but he's worse than all of them combined.
 

icegoat63

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
allowing 9/11 to occur even though there was warnings about it for months
woah woah woah... you hold your horses on that one. The boiling point signs for 911 can be traced way way way before George W. ever took office. I'm talking the '83 Beirut Suicide Bombings and the official "forming" of Bin Ladens Al Queda in '88. In 1990's there were several assassinations and assassination attempts on US Citizens, all under the watch of George HW and Clinton. I mean hell there were attempts or threats to fly planes into the Eiffel Tower, The Kremlin, and other key world landmarks during the 90's.

George W. hadn't even served a full year yet when the September 11th attacks occurred. To say that He alone could have prevented them is pushing the envelope in my opinion. The attacks of that magnitude are like a time bomb with no clock... no one really knows when they'll go off, all they know is that it will go off.

having said that... it kinda blows my mind that you'd have the cajones to say the rest!

Two illegal, unjust wars of aggression, The Patriot act, which basically signed away our rights in favor of Homeland Insecurity
Those were in fact preventive moves that have helped to keep Attacks on US Soil from occurring again. So what is it? You call for action against preventing 911-esque happenings... but yet you don't want the preventive actions?
 

salsanchezfan

Registered Member
woah woah woah... you hold your horses on that one. The boiling point signs for 911 can be traced way way way before George W. ever took office. I'm talking the '83 Beirut Suicide Bombings and the official "forming" of Bin Ladens Al Queda in '88. In 1990's there were several assassinations and assassination attempts on US Citizens, all under the watch of George HW and Clinton. I mean hell there were attempts or threats to fly planes into the Eiffel Tower, The Kremlin, and other key world landmarks during the 90's.
You're forgetting the memo that was given to Condi Rice in August of '01, the one that read "Bin Laden Determined To Strike U.S." Bush didn't even bother to read that. His former chief counter-terrorism adviser, Richard Clarke strongly suggested that the memo be taken seriously, but Bush sat on his hands and did nothing. Even the modes of attack were written in the memo, such as flying planes into New York landmarks (i.e., the WTC towers). You can read it in Clarke's book, it's disgusting to think it could have been prevented but seemingly nobody gave a care.

George W. hadn't even served a full year yet when the September 11th attacks occurred. To say that He alone could have prevented them is pushing the envelope in my opinion. The attacks of that magnitude are like a time bomb with no clock... no one really knows when they'll go off, all they know is that it will go off.
Read what I wrote above.

having said that... it kinda blows my mind that you'd have the cajones to say the rest!



Those were in fact preventive moves that have helped to keep Attacks on US Soil from occurring again. So what is it? You call for action against preventing 911-esque happenings... but yet you don't want the preventive actions?
Preventive moves? Invading two countries that never attacked us was preventive measures? The killing of over a million Iraqis and Afghans were preventive measures? If anything, these illegal wars has created more terrorism around the world, but what's sad is those who support them and use the whole "well, there hasn't been an attack in 7 years" don't give a crap about the terror that is going on around the world because it isn't happening to them. It's shameful, if I may say so, and it started because of Bush's little forays into these nations. These wars created millions more Osama Bin Ladens and Bush has no one to blame but himself.
 
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