• Welcome to the PopMalt Forums! Whether you're new to forums or a veteran, welcome to our humble home on the web! We're a 20-year old forum community with thousands of discussions on entertainment, lifestyle, leisure, and more.

    Our rules are simple. Be nice and don't spam. Registration is free, so what are you waiting for? Join today!.

Evolution: Is it Constitutional?


e̳̳̺͕ͬ̓̑̂ͮͦͣ͒͒h̙ͦ̔͂?̅̂ ̾͗̑
I think that everyone should have to learn philosophy and critical-thinking skills. Nevertheless, there is no excuse for putting certain students at a disadvantage by filling their heads with bullshit. Creationism is not science. If people want their children to be taught it, then they should tell their kid to take a comparative religions course. Or, y'know, take their kids to church, or teach them about creationism at home.


Registered Member
There's nothing unconstitutional about teaching that accepted scientific fact is accepted scientific fact. Hearing a teacher say that we evolved from monkeys, or that the Earth is 4 billion years old, doesn't prevent any student from practicing his faith. Even if it did, the freedom of religion isn't an absolute, and cannot be used to justify denying the rest of the student body of a decent education.


For a Free Scotland
I could fail history by denying that the Holocaust happened. Why don't these people get sympathy?

Public education has an obligation to teach what is objectively true through empirical analysis. If you conscientiously object to it, go to private schools or be homeschooled.


Registered Member
..but that's just state sanctioned supression of people's religious beliefs, isn't it?
Just because schools are obligated to teach something doesn't mean that the students are obligated to believe it.


Registered Member
I think there comes a point in time where a line needs to be drawn. If teaching kids about the theory of evolution intrudes on the religious freedom of some, doesn't teaching kids about a round earth intrude on the freedom of religion of others? When a certain religious belief blatently contradicts overwhelming evidence, the rest of us and the integrity of our public education shoudln't suffer. Remember, it is taught as a "theory," not "fact."


New Member
The fact and theory of Evolution is one of the most complex and interesting scientific observations in all of Science. I have been studying the fact and theory of Evolution for several years and I continue to learn and research the subject. It is amazing how people misinterpret Evolution. It would be understandable if they did not know the genes, total bases, and sequenced bases if each and every chromosome in a human. I don’t think anybody can remember that but to even mistaken the definition of Evolution is undeniably self disinterest in learning about the fact and theory. They even rub salt into this wound of misinformation by stating that Evolution cannot happen, even when they do not know the definition of biological evolution. This not only makes them look extremely ignorant but illogical as well. I know that some people in this forum probably know of Biological Evolution but after reading several threads on it. I’m horrified by the fact that people will make claims that are unsupported yet are digested like sweet tea. I’m going to discuss Biological Evolution. This will be long.

Biological Evolution
is the change in the inherited traits of a population from one generation to the next. The inherited traits are passed down to the next generation by reproduction *fucking*. Mutations in the genes are passed down and they can produce or alter traits. This can lead to differences between the two generations. New traits can transfer genes between populations called “Migrations”. They can also be passed down between species called “horizontal gene transfer”. They can be passed down randomly as well through Genetic Drift.

There are different mechanisms and processes for Biological Evolution. I will name them and define them.

Natural Selection
-The process in nature by which, according to Darwin's theory of evolution, only the organisms best adapted to their environment tend to survive and transmit their genetic characteristics in increasing numbers to succeeding generations while those less adapted tend to be eliminated.

natural selection - definition of natural selection by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

-An alteration or adjustment in structure or habits, often hereditary, by which a species or individual improves its condition in relationship to its environment.

Genetic Drift
-Random fluctuations in the frequency of the appearance of a gene in a small isolated population, presumably owing to chance rather than natural selection.

Gene Flow
-Transfer of genes from one population to another of the same species

-A change of the DNA sequence within a gene or chromosome of an organism resulting in the creation of a new character or trait not found in the parental type.

-The evolutionary formation of new biological species, usually by the division of a single species into two or more genetically distinct ones.

Sexual Selection
-Selection driven by the competition for mates, considered an adjunct to natural selection.

-no longer in existence

There is more to dwell into and I will go deeper into Speciation.
I will first start with the different aspects of Speciation.

Allopatric Speciation
-The evolutionary process through which two geographically separated (and therefore non-interbreeding) populations of the species become less and less similar to each other over time(via mutations or the success of different traits in each environment and eventually become distinctly different species

Peripatric Speciation
-New species are formed in isolated, small peripheral populations which are prevented from passing their inherited traits with the main population. Genetic Drift is the main cause of this Speciation event.

Paraptric Speciation
-The species are split up but do not overlap. They have are not completely separate. They may meet and interact from time to time but will lead to prevention of breeding between the two.

Sympatric Speciation
-Species separate but still live in the same niche.
Reinforcement-Natural Selection increases the species inability to reproduce with one another.

Artificial Selection
-New species are created by stockbreeding.

Hybrid Speciation
-Two different species reproduce and lead to a distinct organism.

Interspersed repeats
-It is an isolating mechanism to allow newly evolving genes from being overwritten by gene conversion.
Humans have also been a part of speciation. Humans and Chimpanzees have diverged around 5 to 8 million years ago.

I’m done with Speciation and will continue on to Mutations.

Mutations are basically copying errors in the genes. This can be caused by cell division, exposure to ultraviolet or ionizing radiation, chemical mutagens, or viruses. It can also happen deliberately under cellular control during a process such as hypermutation.

There are two classes of Mutations. There is spontaneous mutations and induced mutations.

Spontaneous mutations
on the molecular level.

-A base is changed by the reposition of a hydrogen atom.

-loss of a purine base

-This is changes the normal base into a atypical base.

Induced Mutations
can be caused by Nitrosoguanidine, Hydroxylamine, Base analogs, simple chemicals, and Alkylating agents.

There are forms of Radiation like ultraviolet radiation that can cause induced Mutations.

Deoxyribonucleic acid has areas called hot spots where mutations happen 100 times more then the original mutation rate.

Mutation rates very from species to species. Species that are forced through natural selection to have higher mutation rates are most likely to survive. Bacteria is one example of surviving due to having a higher mutation rate to become resistant to most antibiotics.
There are also different variations of Mutations.

Back Mutations-A mutation that restores the original sequence.
Frameshift Mutation-This is caused by adding or subtracting a number of nucleotides that is not evenly divisible by three from a Deoxyribonucleic Acid sequence.

Missense Mutation-This is when a single nucleotide is changed to cause substitution on a different Amino Acid.

Neutral Mutations-is a mutation that occurs in an amino acid Codon which results in the use of a different, but chemically similar, amino acid.

Nonsense Mutation-this results in a premature stop codon.

Point Mutation-is a type of mutation that causes the replacement of a single base nucleotide with another nucleotide.

Silent Mutation-are Deoxyribonucleic acid mutations that do not result in a change to the amino acid sequence of a protein.
I will continue with this later.


Just because schools are obligated to teach something doesn't mean that the students are obligated to believe it.
Yes, you're right. I think the creation movement shows laudable critical judgement on the issue of evolution here. Absolutely keeping in the finest traditions of the scientific method. Both through being skeptical in general, and forcefully pursuant of new information that might help us understand how the world works.

I mean, "god did it!". How gracious and deceptively simple is not such an appeal to search for the truth. So how does a nuclei emit acids in cancer- cells? "God did it" and it's all natural, so why bother with the mundane earthly matters - pure genius. I'm looking forward to the inevitable day a creationist will receive Nobel's price in physics, for his three word study on the possibilities for colonisation of space, the end- all solution to quantum physics, and the ultimate answer to why photons can be energy or particles or both.

Yes, such a union of belief and scientific curiosity! Aquinas would've been proud!


Registered Member
While teaching about every religion is a nice thought, how do you propose they even do it? I mean, that's a whole lot of classes you have to open up, and this is not exactly something you need to survive in life. I say don't teach any of it.

Go over it in World History, sure, because that is a part of history and that is what those people practiced. And evolution can be covered in Biology because it is happening around us. Animals move from different areas and adapt (see; evolve) to fit the new surroundings. and diseases adapt (again, evolve) to over come anti-biotics.

but religion is something that really should be explored on your own. through church, internet, library...there really is no excuse for you not to be able to explore a religion you're interested in on your own. there are so many resources available.


For a Free Scotland
We could also throw in that creationism in itself is unconstitutional via Edwards v. Aguilliard.

So what the fuck would we teach?