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Don't ask don't tell

Don't ask don't tell


  • Total voters
    17

Strayjack

Registered Member
I don't think if DADT is repealed, that all of a sudden all the homosexuals in the military will throw a massive coming out party. It'll just ease the tension for all those who are curious but can't ask or can't answer. It's not like once the policy is lifted, rainbows and unicorns will spring from the pants of soldiers and ensue chaos. That's the feeling I get from a lot of people who support the policy.

I think repealing the law is an important step in letting people become accustomed to homosexuals. To me, it's not much different than integration back in the 60s. Even til now, some people aren't used to it, but you have to start somewhere. I think the military would set a great example and provide a good leadership role in increasing tolerance for these kinds of things.
Being born Black is not a choice, homosexual tendencies are a choice. So you cannot equate that to the 1960's civil rights movement. Being attracted to someone/something is natural, how you act upon and your action however sets you up to make choices. You are equating homosexuality as natural. Nothing about the act of homosexuality is natural other than being born a human being. As I mentioned, there was nothing that could stop homosexuals, lesbians from joining the military. I knew of them and they pretty much fit and function as any normal soldier. It is when the cohesiveness and mission is affected that the issue is subject to questions and can lead to dismissal from their duty.

Being heterosexual is natural. However, if I am married and decide to sleep with another of the opposite sex, that act constitute immoral and not normal, therefor punishable under the UCMJ. The military now has to change their UCMJ articles specially the General Article section... homosexuals does not have to come out from the closet, the damage is already being felt.

I guess now heterosexuals can file lawsuits/complaints against someone of the same sex they feel uncomfortable being around with in the same shower room. Oh wait, we need new shower rooms. Sensitivity classes need to be conducted... so other than having sexual harassment classes, you will have sensitivity classes towards homosexuals. Aren't they special.

LOL what about being in the bay; male floor of the barracks usually someone announces if a female is on that floor. What now? Yell out a homosexual is there?! will they be allowed to make such announcement, or will this be considered offensive?

Liberalism simply doesn't work. This is all about changing something now because it feels repressive.
 
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Strayjack

Registered Member
I understand how it could make soldiers uncomfortable. They often have to live in very close quarters - sometimes it's not uncommon to have to sleep next to other guys, and shower within a couple feet of them.

That said, the harm DADT causes is definitely a problem. This isn't just a matter of people not saying they're gay. If they do anything that gives someone probable cause to believe they're gay, then they can face repercussions. That includes cases where they're victims of harassment - if they report it, they risk being outed, and getting in trouble.

Admittedly, a lot of the problem isn't entirely with the rule, but with commanders who are idiots and railroad their soldiers.
Have you been in the service? A lot of soldier in the past used the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy to get out of the service. I guess now they cannot claim to be gay to get out. They can simply not show up for work or get several DUIs to get kicked out.

I have never experienced someone getting kicked for simply being gay. They either divulge their sexual preference or be seen/caught in homosexual activity. Gays have served in the military honorably in the past and present. Nothing is stopping them... every action has an equal or opposite reaction, what reaction do you think you will receive, in the 200 plus years of the military this is something unbelievable.
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Ummmm OK .
So stating your opinion and factual matter is now considered bigotry or homophobic? Well, I predicted as much.
 
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Raos

Registered Member
If your opinion is homophobic then yes and I am struggling to see where you stated any facts.
 

Strayjack

Registered Member
If your opinion is homophobic then yes and I am struggling to see where you stated any facts.
Which part? Being Born black is natural or deciding one day that you are gay? Or, the question of what is "normal"? Should I cite the definition of normal, normal activity, norm, or what? C'mon, I know I am challenging your stance on homosexuality and the destructive nature of the movement.

Or about the military? We need another prior service or current serviceman/woman come in here and put fort their own experience and opinion. It is obvious that you will dismiss my experience in this matter.

It's was cool to see the movie "300" and the defiant yell " This is Spartaaaaaa", lol what happened to Sparta as a society?
 
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shelgarr

Registered Member
I voted "keep" but not because I'm against gays serving. It's because DADT seems to be working but I would add one thing. If you're found out, it's not grounds to be discharged.

The whole sexuality talk should be a non-issue. Sexuality doesn't define us. It's not a dinner time subject nor should it be a topic at admissions.

For the most part the military seems to be ok with repeal so that is good. But if the "openly" part is fully exercised, what will that become? For instance, will mannerisms continue in it's most masculine form or will there be a trend toward the sterotype? That could get dicey.
 

PretzelCorps

Registered Member
It's was cool to see the movie "300" and the defiant yell " This is Spartaaaaaa", lol what happened to Sparta as a society?
You defeat your own argument. Yes, Sparta did encourage homosexual relationships amongst their military philosophies and doctrines, and yes, they do not exist today. But that needs to be put into perspective:

They emerged as a force in the 10th century BCE, and surrendered political independence in 188 BCE, after ~700 years of warfare; that's [red]three times longer[/red] than the modern, and comparatively young, USA. You will not be able to make assertions of America's military superiority within your lifetime. Or your children's children's lifetime, for that matter.

And even after Sparta was absorbed by the Greek state, and thereafter the Roman state, they maintained their culture and lifestyle, and even became something of a tourist location for Roman elites.


But that aside, your argument here seems to be based on the dehumanization of homosexuals; you appear to think that serving "openly" immediately demands a drop in all protocol and professionalism; that openly homosexual soldiers would ditch their fatigues for pink and purple, and their discipline for running around and shouting "Oh mah gawd, lookit me! Lookit me all gay 'n junk!"; that openly gay soldiers would be free to fondle and caress other soldiers like the army was a gigantic homo-tastic playground. Serving "openly" only means they are no longer completely banned from admitting their preference. That's it. They are no more obliged to disobey orders or pinch you in the ass than a male soldier is free to sexually harass a female soldier or do whatever he felt like in despite of protocol.

If you would take a few moments of your life to actually speak with an homosexual, you'd know right away that it's not the 'rational choice' you propose it to be.
 
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Wade8813

Registered Member
Have you been in the service? A lot of soldier in the past used the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy to get out of the service. I guess now they cannot claim to be gay to get out. They can simply not show up for work or get several DUIs to get kicked out.
I'm currently serving as a Paralegal in the Reserves.

I have never experienced someone getting kicked for simply being gay. They either divulge their sexual preference or be seen/caught in homosexual activity. Gays have served in the military honorably in the past and present. Nothing is stopping them... every action has an equal or opposite reaction, what reaction do you think you will receive, in the 200 plus years of the military this is something unbelievable.
Let's say that someone is being harassed because their fellow soldiers believe he might be gay. He reports the harassment to the IG, and the IG investigates everything. In the course of the investigation, it's discovered that the soldier actually is gay.

That violates the UCMJ, and all the soldier wanted to do was stop the harassment.
 
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