Does "Right to Carry" deter crime?

Discussion in 'Politics & Law' started by pro2A, Sep 10, 2010.

  1. pro2A

    pro2A Hell, It's about time!

    I haven't done a gun debate thread in a while and I figure why not make my 5,000th post a good one.

    Simple question really... do right to carry states have less crime then states that are not right to carry? Currently 43 states have right to issue laws. Of the 7 that don't, do they have lower crime because of it? Or is it higher?

    Babe_Ruth likes this.

  2. SmilinSilhouette

    SmilinSilhouette Registered Member

    Congrats on 5000 posts my friend! I don't know if you'll get much of a debate on this one but we shall see. Of course crime is reduced when citizens exercise their 2nd amendment right to self-defense. As any smart person knows when seconds count the cops are only minutes away!
    pro2A likes this.
  3. Merc

    Merc Certified Shitlord V.I.P. Lifetime

    You fail to realize SS that criminals by definition are not rational and rarely smart. Having a gun on you may even the odds but criminals are not going to be as easily deterred by guns as people would like to think. They can also escalate the tension in a situation. I think you have a slightly lower chance of running into a smart criminal in an area with a lot of open carry, but that doesn't mean you're going to deter most crime.
    Sim likes this.
  4. pro2A

    pro2A Hell, It's about time!

    I still think it has an affect though. I'll use my state as an example. We have a little over 12.6 million people living in Pennsylvania. Maryland just south of us has about 5.6 Million. Maryland has a little under half of our population... yet according to violent crime statistics has 1.5 times the violent crime rate. Per 100,000 residents in Maryland the violent crime rate is 628.2 per 100K. In PA it is only 410 per 100K.

    Then if you look at the robbery rates there are only 151.6 per 100k in PA, yet in Maryland it is 234 per 100k. Again a 1.5% higher rate for a state with almost half the population.

    So for a state that has less guns, their violent crime/robbery rate is about 1.5 times higher then a state that is armed to the teeth and allows unrestricted carry. What is the difference?

    Pennsylvania had relaxed shall issue laws, and Maryland has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation. I do not believe that is a coincidence.

    Links to stats:
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2010
  5. Daemonic

    Daemonic Registered Member

    Not sure if it's because I live in Maryland but I got turned down when I was old enough to get a gun license in here in MD. Probably has something to do with the fact I was committed to a mental hospital and did not sign myself in when I was a younger. I thought I would be fine though when I was an adult but I guess not.

    Only thing that bothers me about right to carry is I'm not allowed to own a gun....

    Then again, I doubt I would carry one around in the first place. I used to live near a not so nice area where I wouldn't be surprised if you got hurt or shot just because someone wanted to steal your gun and sell it, or keep it. I think it depends on the area for if it would deter crime or not.
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2010
  6. icegoat63

    icegoat63 Son of Liberty V.I.P. Lifetime

    Well I've found that even in states themselves. California being as huge as it is, is a great example. Comparing my area (Fresno County) which is a Pro-gun area to San Francisco County which is basically the polar opposite of us and you'll find; (stats as of 2006 - Crime Rate Comparison: San Francisco Vs. Fresno)


    The Graph is based on a 100,000 per capita statistic, so I dont wanna have to weather the "but the populations are different!" argument. You're more likely to get Murdered, Raped, or Robbed in San Francisco than you are in Fresno.

    I still laugh though at how in Fresno the other "When you're not around" crimes are alot worse :hah: Not exactly sure how that correlates to the expectation of making contact with the barrel of a gun when the criminal makes his/her decision to commit the crime.
  7. SmilinSilhouette

    SmilinSilhouette Registered Member

    @ Cons: I understand that is your opinion, do you care to back that up with any statistics, studies, or other references supporting your opinion as Pro and Goat have? Or are we to take your word for it? I am aware of many such statistics that support for the opinion that I share with Pro & Goat. I'm not aware of any credible evidence to the contrary that isn't provided by anti-gun groups that mischaracterize statistics to support their objectives. There are even more studies and books comparing crime rates before and after the implementation of shall issue laws.
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2010
  8. Merc

    Merc Certified Shitlord V.I.P. Lifetime

    One thing no statistics will tell you (and I'm sure you'll say is not worth mentioning) is the cultures of each of these areas. Areas with high crime rates tend to be high because of urbanization, the amount of poor and jobless, and obviously, the area's individual culture. Pro-gun advocates want to believe that guns are what are making the difference and I never denied it would make a small difference, but I don't think it's enough of a difference to say that open carry would be a good idea in a place like say, Detroit. Although, plenty of thugs open carry whether it's against the law or not. The point is, crime rates tend to be lower in places with tighter communities. If I could find statistics on that, you'd bet I'd post them. But, all I have is my opinion and well, statistics are like polls. They tend to be unreliable and they change hourly and whether or not you want to believe it they're all going to have bias.
  9. pro2A

    pro2A Hell, It's about time!

    Maryland is a state that won't issue permits, even if you have a note from God. Mental or not... you won't get one there :-/
    I understand your rural vs urban argument... but look at Camden, NJ which is just across the river from Philadelphia. Camden, NJ has the highest violent crime of rate of any city or town in the whole nation, which is also located in NJ which some of the strictest gun laws in the country as well. Their violent crime rate per capita is almost 1 in 10 residents. In Philly, right across the river in the same metro area, which is in Pennsylvania which has relaxed gun laws... the violent crime rate per capita is about 1 in 20 residents. That is almost half the crime rate per capita and Philly has a huge population compared to Camden.

    The difference again... citizens in Philly can legally carry and arm themselves, while citizens in Camden can not and if they can it is very difficult. They are both very urban not rural redneck areas.

    Philadelphia Crime Statistics (PA) -
    Camden Crime Statistics (NJ) -

    YouTube - Jordan fades back, and that's the game!
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2010
  10. SmilinSilhouette

    SmilinSilhouette Registered Member

    @ Cons: it would seem that you are conflating shall issue/right to carry with open carry, so I will define and provide examples so that we may speak the same language.
    Shall issue means that the local government must have a reason to deny a citizen a permit to carry. For example, in Michigan there used to be local gun boards or it was up to the county sheriff's discretion to decide if an individual was "worthy" or had a "legitimate" reason to carry. Obviously this resulted in friends being issued permits while others were denied for no good reason. Shall issue/right to carry laws have eliminated that "discretion" and now, in Michigan, they must issue the permit unless they have a legitimat reason to deny the issuance of the permit.
    Open carry means the gun is visible at all times or is not concealed in any way. This was I often used by police as a tactic to deny citizens the right to carry. For example, it is legal in Michigan to open carry without a concealed pistol permit. But if your shirt or jacket covered your pistol or you got into a vehicle then it would be considered "concealed" requiring the permit that used to be almost impossible to obtain unless you had a friend in the sheriffs department.

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