Creation vs. Evolution / Science Related

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by FutureTrackStar, Mar 27, 2009.

  1. FutureTrackStar

    FutureTrackStar Registered Member

    I saw a post at the beginning of the "Why I believe in God" thread that suggested that we categorize our discussions instead of lumping them all into one big "God's existence" thread. So, I'll start a few categories.

    This one can be for the good ol' creation vs. evolution debate, and anything science related.

    To begin, I'm just going to point to Kent Hovind and his website Creation Science Evangelism | Creation. Evolution. Dinosaurs. The Bible. . I agree with just about everything he says. Just watch one of his debates in the multimedia section of his website.
     

  2. Paisley

    Paisley Registered Member

    here is my reference on that topic... Bill hicks (rest in peace) said it all for me. YouTube - Bill Hicks: Dinosaurs in the Bible

    Personally I think that the human race has to advance in science and evolve into greater beings.
     
  3. Merc

    Merc Certified Shitlord V.I.P. Lifetime

    Kent Hovid is a criminal currently facing 10 years for all sorts of charges. From Wikipedia:

    "...convicted of 58 federal counts, including twelve tax offenses, one count of obstructing federal agents and forty-five counts of structuring cash transactions."

    He's even hated by creationists and non-creationists alike. He even believes that there are dinosaurs on Earth still today. Yeah, I'm going to steer clear of this guy when it comes to reliable information.
     
  4. Smelnick

    Smelnick Creeping On You V.I.P.

    Finally, someone did enough research about this guy to find that out. Lol, the first time I posted a link to this guy's site, I knew all along about him being arrested for tax fraud and stuff lol. I posted the link hoping to see who actually would read up about him. He is a complete kook about quite a few things, but if you know about that, at least you've taken time to look at the other side of the story.

    In church, with my bible study group, we've been watching his set of dvd's filled with his lectures about creation etc. I watched the one where he talks about dinosaurs still being on earth. He talks about things like the lochness monster, Ogopogo and other mysterious creatures in the jungles of africa etc. Mind you, the videos we're watching are from his earlier time before he went off the deep end. In the video, he's alot less fanatical. He simply presents different stories of sightings, and myths and stuff that suggest that there might be a few dinosaurs in the jungle and stuff. Whether it's true or not, it's still pretty intriguing.
     
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  5. FutureTrackStar

    FutureTrackStar Registered Member

    - haha, oh so he has financial issues and is refuses to pay taxes (or w/e the offenses are) so you decide that his arguments against evolution are completely invalid? Since when do tax offenses inhibit one's ability to debate?

    I'm guessing you still haven't watched any of his videos. I've watched quite a few of them and he brings up some excellent points and he brings in evidence from published articles and books by authors of both sides of the debate. I recently watched a live debate and he mentioned an interview done with Richard Dawkins. The interviewer asked Dawkins to give an example of one mutation that results in an increase in genetic complexity... just one. Dawkins was silent for 19 seconds and then asked for the camera to be turned off.

    Hovind has done an incredible amount of legitimate research and to just dismiss it based on some of his problems is quite immature.
     
  6. Merc

    Merc Certified Shitlord V.I.P. Lifetime

    Hovind actually believes that fossils are not from animals, but made by millions of organisms that died during the biblical flood that washed ashore and hardened. This guy has no idea what he's talking about. I also like how you ignored the fact that he believes dinosaurs are still around.

    I have to say my favorite video is debate #2 with the "professor" who just gives up right at the beginning. He was not a very good actor and if Kent Hovind wants to promote his drivel he needs to pay better for better actors. His debates are flat out insane. He's just as bad as the arrogant atheists who condescend the religious.
     
  7. Paisley

    Paisley Registered Member


    Damn my attempts at showing the bill hicks video with the loch ness monster being a scottish tourist attraction has failed :(
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    I think constantine is trying to convey that the man's integraty might be in question.

    I did have a look at the website 3 pages do stand out

    Creation Science Evangelism | Now Reading “Evolution and Christianity Mix like Oil and Water”
    Creation Science Evangelism | Now Reading “Fossils Do Not Prove Evolution”
    Creation Science Evangelism | Now Reading “Does carbon dating prove the Earth is millions of years old?”

    there are a few questions that come up

    that he states that noah has to build an ark to save the choosen creatures. he claims that the earth is no more than 30,000 years old. that carbon dating must be at least x10 incurrate

    and how long has mankind been able to build boats?
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2009
  8. Smelnick

    Smelnick Creeping On You V.I.P.

    Well, it's not like he believes that we're gonna wake up with a T-rex staring in our window. He just believes that there's a possibility that some dinosaurs still remain hidden out there. Perhaps in underwater caves, or deep in some jungles. Whether it's true or not, it's somewhat intriguing and I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't find it cool if it actually was true.

    Which video does he say that he thinks fossils are actually washed up micro organisms? Perhaps most of these videos on this site are newer. The one's I'm watching in my Bible study class are his older ones from the early nineties I think. So maybe he was less fanatical and kooked out back then. I don't remember him talking about fossils being a bunch of organisms.
     
  9. MenInTights

    MenInTights not a plastic bag


    FTS - first, you're one of the few guys on here that I read every posts. I like you. But, these guys are right. Hovind has no credibility and really shouldn't be used as a source.

    Let me lay out 2 reasons why I feel this way:

    #1 - Skipping taxes is a direct violation of what Jesus said to do. "And Jesus said unto them, Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's. And they marvelled greatly at him." When you disobey the Word, you lose your authority to preach it.

    #2 - Like it or not, the messenger rubs off on the message. Who do you think of when I say Global Warming?
    A. Al Gore
    Now, what is your first impression of that person?
    A. A hypocrite that says we all have to tighten up and save the planet while he flys in private jets and lights up his Nashville mansion like a Las Vegas hotel.
    I mean really, I thank God for Al Gore. His actions turn a lot of people off to global warming. I love to see they guy get on stage and call people that don't believe in man-made global warming nazis because it deflates the entire movement.

    So, what's the solution? This is my thinking. First, there's nothing wrong with getting information that you trust is reliable from the guy. I just wouldn't use him as a source. Second, I'd recommend spending more time with the Answers in Genesis folks: Answers in Genesis - Creation, Evolution, Christian Apologetics Their website seems to be just as deep as Hovind's, they've got the cool museum and magazine.
    He may be a great guy, but he just has a huge credibility problem.
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    err, yeah.. Let's use a guy that can't construct a sentence without using the F-word as the definitive source on the origins of life.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2009
  10. FutureTrackStar

    FutureTrackStar Registered Member

    - Constantine, I can tell that you have not watched all that much on his website. Ok, lets go through your statements one at a time.

    "Hovind actually believes that fossils are not from animals"

    - Wow. Just wow. I can't even imagine where you got that from. He most certainly does believe that a fossil is the imprint of an animal that did exist.

    "but made by millions of organisms that died during the biblical flood that washed ashore and hardened."

    - Kent Hovind believes that most fossils were made during the Flood. He does not believe that they "washed ashore and hardened". He believes that the Flood was extremely catastrophic (the damage was similar to thousands of atomic bombs) and as the mud and sediments in the waters of the Flood settled, so too did the bodies of dead animals. These bodies were buried under and within the sedimentary layers that were formed by the Flood, and thus formed fossils. That is what he believes more or less. I haven't done as much research into the science of the Flood, so I may not have been 100% accurate, but this is generally what he believes. You would know that if you watched his videos.

    "This guy has no idea what he's talking about"

    - He was a science teacher for 15 years. He has an adequate understanding of most fields of science to debate with scientists, and he also has a very good understanding of formal debate. He catches the other side making argumentative fallacies all the time. So, no, he actually does know what he's talking about... at least enough to legitimately debate.

    "He believes dinosaurs are still around"

    - I'm pretty sure he says that dinosaurs may still be around. A dinosaur is a big lizard, that's all. Almost all reptiles never stop growing because of their anatomy. So if a reptile lived to be 500 years old, it would most certainly be a dinosaur.

    Your whole second paragraph

    - That man was not an actor. That debate was a debate at a university and that man was a legitimate university professor who taught evolution in the classroom. If you continued to watch the video you would see that he adamantly defends the evolutionist standpoint. He is not an actor. I don't think that debate is one of the better ones, I actually recommend you just go on the CSEtv and try to catch a debate on there... they are on quite frequently.
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    - Awww, thanks. I like you too.

    - Ok, here's the thing. There is not a single pastor who has not disobeyed the Word of God. The Pope has disobeyed the Word of God many times. Just because somebody sins does not mean they don't have the authority to preach about the Bible.

    I will admit that Hovind has a shaky past concerning the law. But, if you watch one of his videos, you will notice something constant in all of his debates: his powerpoints. He has a vast powerpoint collection. And if you watch the videos, you will notice that his powerpoints are almost entirely comprised of quotations, excerpts, diagrams, photos, drawings, etc. from credible sources that are scientific. Many of these sources are from nationally recognized scientific journals and periodicals. Many of these sources are modern textbooks used in university biology classes. He uses legitimate sources all the time and reads from them verbatim to make his arguments. He combines these sources with formal logic and reasoning to build his argument. I would say that that is reliable enough. I could learn all of his powerpoints and give the same debate, but I don't have the history with the law that he does, does that all of a sudden make the argument reliable? No, it's reliable now because it is founded solely on scientific sources.

    I will admit that he is probably not as theologically sound as many theologians. I personally believe that Dallas Theological Seminary has a very sound theology, and I'm sure Hovind differs from it quite a bit. But he rarely talks about specific theological subjects. He is talking about the very basics of Christianity: the Creation. He doesn't need a Th.D. to defend the Creation.

    - I actually have never seen that website. Thank you for showing it to me, I have just bookmarked it and will look into it. But remember, Kent Hovind is not the source of the pieces of his argument. He is the source of his own argument, but his argument is founded on sources that are completely reliable.

    I'll be sure to use that Answers in Genesis site in future discussions once I get a chance to dive into it more.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2009

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