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Cliff Lee's postseason dominance

Millz

Better Call Saul
Staff member
V.I.P.
This isn't a Cliff Lee appreciation thread or anything but I feel he should be discussed for the absolute ridiculous way he pitches in the postseason. He might be the best ever. Let's look at some stats.

Got this info from TBS...

Listed by "Lowest ERA for Starter with 7+ Wins".

Cliff Lee: 7-0, 1.26 ERA
Bob Gibson: 7-2, 1.89 ERA
Curt Schilling: 11-2, 2.23 ERA
Dave McNally: 7-4, 2.49 ERA
Orlando Hernandez: 9-3, 2.55 ERA

You could make an argument for Schilling given the number of wins but Lee's career isn't over yet.
 

Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
V.I.P.
Lee's playoff numbers speak for themselves, but I don't think you can really appreciate what he's doing by just looking at the stats. Watching him pitch in the Playoffs has been a work of art. It's incredible on how foolish he's making some of these talented batters look. His control is impacable, his movement on some of his pitches are incredible.

The only weakness he as, is that he cannot pitch on three days rest, which is important come playoff time.

I'm finally starting to become a believer of Lee after the last few years of calling him overrated. I still don't believe he's a better pitcher then Halladay though.
 

SqueakScolari

Registered Member
I'm finally starting to become a believer of Lee after the last few years of calling him overrated. I still don't believe he's a better pitcher then Halladay though.
As a ardent Halladay supporter, I don't want this to be the case either, but you can make a good case that Lee is in the same capacity as Doc and maybe better. No question in my mind that he is better in the postseason then Doc. (In fairness to Doc, this is his first postseason to prove it). When your name is getting ranked with postseason greats like Curt Schilling, Bob Gibson, and Jack Morris, that's impressive.

Lee steps it up the postseason and right now, you would have to say that he ranks among the best of all-time as a postseason pitcher. He very well could cement his status as the best post-season pitcher of all-time with a World Series win with Texas, basically being the ace and leading two different teams to WS wins in consecutive years.

Right now, there is no other pitcher in the game, including Doc, that I would want on the mound for Game 7 in the World Series then Cliff Lee. He just keeps proving that when the spotlight grows brighter, he becomes even better.
 
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Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
V.I.P.
As a ardent Halladay supporter, I don't want this to be the case either, but you can make a good case that Lee is in the same capacity as Doc and maybe better. No question in my mind that he is better in the postseason then Doc. (In fairness to Doc, this is his first postseason to prove it). When your name is getting ranked with postseason greats like Curt Schilling, Bob Gibson, and Jack Morris, that's impressive.
I have to disagree that Lee might be better then Halladay. Halladay had a better season and career then Lee thus far, it's not all that close to be honest with you. Lee struggle at the end of the year this season, while Halladay ended very strong and led the Phillies to the Playoffs. I'm just talking about their career here, excluding Playoffs since Halladay has only pitched two games in the postseason.

Lee steps it up the postseason and right now, you would have to say that he ranks among the best of all-time as a postseason pitcher. He very well could cement his status as the best post-season pitcher of all-time with a World Series win with Texas, basically being the ace and leading two different teams to WS wins in consecutive years.
I definitely agree that he ranks has one of the best postseason pitchers of all-time, his numbers alone prove that he does. Can he can keep it up? I don't see why not.

Right now, there is no other pitcher in the game, including Doc, that I would want on the mound for Game 7 in the World Series then Cliff Lee. He just keeps proving that when the spotlight grows brighter, he becomes even better.
Call me bias, but I rather have Halladay in a Game 7 World Series game. Halladay got a no-hitter in his first game in the postseason, and only allowed four runs in his second. If I was a manager and had to choose one pitcher in a final deciding game, then I have to pick the best pitcher in the game, and that to me is Roy Halladay and not Cliff Lee. I know, it's hard to ignore Lee's playoff numbers, but I just believe that Doc would get the job done.
 
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SqueakScolari

Registered Member
Great counter-points BR.

If your talking career with Halladay, then yes, I agree, Doc has had a much, MUCH better career then Lee. I am just talking about presently, at this point in time, from 2008-onward. It fairly close, both have been exceptional. You really could go either way.

Call me bias, but I rather have Halladay in a Game 7 World Series game. Halladay got a no-hitter in his first game in the postseason, and only allowed four runs in his second. If I was a manager and had to choose one pitcher in a final deciding game, then I have to pick the best pitcher in the game, and that to me is Roy Halladay and not Cliff Lee. I know, it's hard to ignore Lee's playoff numbers, but I just believe that Doc would get the job done.
I can't disagree with this. The reason I would go with Lee over Doc is that we have seen Lee in the World Series (dominate) and we have yet to see Halladay. I'm sure Doc would get the job done, but with the numbers in front of me, and from what I have seen in Lee, I would rather have him starting that game then any other pitcher in baseball right now. It's no slight to Halladay, he is still my favorite, it's just that Lee in his 7 starts (bigger sample size the Roy) has simply proven he is one of the best postseason pitchers of this era, maybe of all-time.
 

CaptainObvious

Embrace the Suck
V.I.P.
I agree with the points made by both sides and in the interest of full disclosure I think Doc is the best pitcher in the game right now and would argue he's been the best pitcher of the decade.

That said, Lee has been amazing in the post-season and last night's performance was just dominating. I would have to agree with Squeaks that presently, because of his history of dominance in the playoffs, if it were a game 7 in the WS I'd have to give the nod to Lee.
 

Millz

Better Call Saul
Staff member
V.I.P.
Impossible to argue Cliff Lee over Roy Halladay for their career...I agree with that.

Hard for me to pick anyone over Cliff Lee if you're talking about a game 7 situation. We've seen what Lee can do. Halladay dominated a scared Cincinnati Reds team that hadn't been to the playoffs in 15 years. It was game 1 of the divisional series. League Championship series came around and he got beat. So I can't take Halladay over Lee, playoff wise. At least not yet haha.
 
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