"Christianity is a Sin"

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Icyblackflame, Jan 21, 2007.

  1. Icyblackflame

    Icyblackflame Registered Member

    EDIT: I don't know how to fix this quote thing. Sometimes when "enter" is pressed inside a quote, it makes it a new quote, even though it is part of the old quote. If the passage by not have "[(by (username)]"at the end of it, then the next quote is a part of the last one.
    Some of the first few responses:


    There's the first page of responses. You can read the rest there is you want to.

    Anyway, I was (obviously) reading that, and I wanted to know what you guys thought. And I hope that nobody minds me copying and pasting. I didn't know if that'd be okay...

    What do you think about all of this?


  2. Kazmarov

    Kazmarov For a Free Scotland

    Regardless as to whether or not Jesus is God, he does make a good point about idolatry and the crucifix. I think that Catholicism could be viewed as sinful because unlike Judaism, Protestantism, and Islam, they have idols. Sure, it's not in their Decalouge, but it's still in an important part of the Bible.
  3. raddmadd

    raddmadd Registered Member

    Jesus is God and God is Jesus but the Father isn't the Son and the Son isn't the Father.

    Proof that Jesus is God is, we must be saved by what Jesus did on the cross. We are saved by faith in God alone, so if Jesus wasn't God we wouldn't be able to be saved by Him. thats why Jesus was the only way to Heaven "I am the Way the Truth and the Life, no one enters into Heaven but by me" (something like that you all know it ;)) Jesus is God, so we can be saved,and He can hold the full burden etc. and He was man so He could die for our sins.

    "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." -Romans 10:9
  4. scitsofreaky

    scitsofreaky Registered Member

    Wow, that screams logical fallacy. I'll demonstrate. Let's say Jesus=A, God=B, Son=C, Father=D.
    A is B, and B is A. Good thus far. But C isn't D, and D isn't C. On it's own, just fine. But since A=C since Jesus is the Son, and B=D since God is Father we can do some substitution and we get: A is B, and B is A. But A isn't B, and B isn't A. But if that doesn't make the problem obvious, I can do better. From the first part of your arguement we can get A=B=C=D which means we can do some more substitution and get: A is A, and A is A. But A isn't A, and A isn't A.
    So since you have an fallacious argument to begin with, it doesn't matter what "evidence" you give because the argument will always remain invalid.
  5. raddmadd

    raddmadd Registered Member

    A is B and B is A but C isn't D and D isn't C
    A is C and C is A and D is B and B is D
    A isn't D and D isn't A and B isn't C and C isn't B

    you said: "But A isn't B, and B isn't A"

    but i said: A is B and B is A

    you said: "A is A, and A is A. But A isn't A, and A isn't A."

    but i said: "A is A and A is A"

    Jesus and God are separate beings in One. But the Father isn't the Son and the Son isn't the Father. "A isn't A and A isn't A?" no, Jesus isn't the Father but He is God.

    "A is A and A is A but A isn't A and A isn't A"

    This can bring to mind that Jesus is God and God is the Father, so that would mean Jesus is the Father. But they are separate beings in One. Could I be wrong? Yes, this isn't scriptural, so this is fully from my "observations" or opinion.
  6. This isn't exactly new ground, you know. Of course, any reading of the Gospel of John will bring you clearly to the idea that Jesus is God, not only the opening ("In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God"), but also later statements like "I AM" said by Jesus which got everyone pissed off at him.

    Anti-trinitarians have been around for a very long time, and you can secularly view John as a later development because it was written after the three related gospels Matthew, Mark, and Luke, but the Council of Nicea didn't abolish anything that wasn't already written in the works they accepted as canon. If you want to say they shaped the canon in a certain way, of course, but it's not a misinterpretation of what's there that's going to lead you to the concept of the Trinity.

    And as far as the relationship of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost being contradictory, that's getting into applying logic to things that are by necessity beyond humanly logic. Which isn't a convincing argument in its favor (you can argue anything that way), but the circular point that if God is a supremely powerful, extra dimensional being, He can be beyond earthly reasoning is not something that can be completely disregarded, I don't think.

    I always hate mathematical examples, but I think looking at how a flatman perceives three dimensional objects is at least a good start as to how we might perceive a high object ourselves. And I think you can keep open that possibility, while admitting that it makes no sense in our universe for three to be distinct and singular at the same time.

    And I'll also agree that you can sin by worshipping through idols, although not necessarily. It's not a sin in the Old Testament to make an offering to God on a high place once used by pagans if you are doing it faithfully. However, if you start to imbue the ceremony itself with power rather than the ineffable God you're supposedly worshipping, therein lies the problem. Whether that's killing bulls, saying a specific prayer, or going to church on Sunday to sit in a pew.

    I've always like Psalm Fifty on this issue.
  7. Icyblackflame

    Icyblackflame Registered Member

    I don't believe that Jesus isn't God. I think that it's a rather stupid argument. I just wanted to see what people here had to say. And you should argue with that girl on that site. You make some good points.
  8. Kazmarov

    Kazmarov For a Free Scotland

    Well Christianity may to some not be a sin, but it certaintly wasn't originally planned by Jesus or the apostles. Jesus died, was resurrected, and said "yo, I'll be back in a jiffy" about twenty to thirty years passed, and people who knew him started dying by the truckload. Then the New Testament was written by a bunch of non-apostles. So you can defintely (and quite easily) say that every institution of Christianity is a superfluous lie. Whether you think that those insitutions combine to be a sinful practice is up to your own opinion. Personally, I think the idolatry of the crucifix and the cross, and the trangressions of most Christian insititutions combine to be sinful.

    Be careful about what you worship, kids.
  9. GCMD

    GCMD Guest

    What you must understand is there is a defference in idols and the Earthly representation of GOD.

    "Jesus" was supposed to be the only man born of a woman to have no sin. He was also supposed to the "ideal" that we all strive for.

    That is the basis for Christianity, not an idol. It is an I-DEAL. A tangible ideal.

    It is similar to the Muslim reverence of the Prophet Muhammad (SWT). It's not to be confused with "worship".

    So the sin is on the individual. An individual can choose to identify the man with the deity. That's his sin.

    As for the books (Bible, Qu'ran), they never teach worship of any man. All praises to Allah/GOD.

    Anyone who argues otherwise needs to rethink/reread their books.
  10. wyldesykosis

    wyldesykosis Feral

    Is anyone aware of the term transmutation when it refers to relgion?

    Transmutation is a religion adopting parts of another religion to make those who convert to their religion feel more comfortable


    The Halo is from Egyptian sun disk worshiping.

    The image of God (a big, white bearded man) is from Zues of Greek Mythology.

    Why must a religion alter itself to make it more appealing?

    On response to the theory: He/she brings up a good point....but the others bring up a counter point aswell tho about the whole god, the son, and the holy spirit thingie.......I can't remember, but wasn't the bible re-written or recopied like that one go was saying about the Council of Nicea?

    I've noticed that logic and religion can't mix......which is why I don't much care for religion honestly, but I find it interesting what they all beleive.....I lived with a Buddhist once...it was interesting...his parents were Christian too lol

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