"Christianity is a Sin"

Icyblackflame

Registered Member
#1
EDIT: I don't know how to fix this quote thing. Sometimes when "enter" is pressed inside a quote, it makes it a new quote, even though it is part of the old quote. If the passage by not have "[(by (username)]"at the end of it, then the next quote is a part of the last one.
Hello and good day. I have a subject in which I would like to discuss with you all, as my pondering into religion has brought forth an interesting discussion.
Practicing Christianity, is a Sin. In the eyes of all those who believe in the Bible.

Now before you start bashing me, I ask that you please, here me out. I am a neutral on the subject. I don't believe in Religion, but I've done... *sighs* Extensive research on as many religions as I could find, from Paganism to Wicca, from Taoism to Christianity. I only bring this up because if the Bible-believers here are correct, a lot of them COULD be going to hell. Plus I just want to see what you guys think about my theory ^_~


Anywho, here's my theory.





In the Bible, God makes it very clear that you shall not worship anyone but him, in fact, it's a Commandment.

From the bible.
"I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;"

"you shall have no other gods before me."

He then talks about not worshiping a false idol, he's the one true God, and basically 'Don't worship anyone but me or you're screwed ya bastid' to paraphrase >_>

From the bible.
"You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."

"You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me"


So. He's saying only worship Him, don't idolize anyone and worship them instead. Clear enough. Now let me ask you this...



What would that make Jesus?


Ahah! The point reveals itself. God talks about sinners worshiping a golden idol, he tells people to worship only He who is Him, and yet, all these people.. are worshiping his son? He doesn't say you can worship Jesus!

Now think about this little thing... Millions upon millions of people wear the cross. Golden Crosses, silver crosses. They go to church, praying and worshiping, under the GIANT symbol of God's son, DYING.


Let me repeat that. People are going to church, to Worship The Image Of God's Son Dying. Sounds kinda Satanic, don't you think?


I submit to you, that Satan has tricked Christians, and all these people are going to hell. If their whole religion is correct in the first place, of course.


Discuss! ^_^



*bows*


~Jet (by Jet Black X)
Some of the first few responses:
jesus IS god.
father, son, holy ghost... god.
it's relatively simple.
at least to me, since i was raised christian.(by Jazzberry)
Oy. You must have missed the "Jesus is God" memo. (by Cougar Draven)
Therein lie the point, no?
What if you're wrong? The bible backs up what I said... What if Jesus isn't God? What if you're idolizing someone, even if he IS the son of God... It'd suck if you went to Hell over a misunderstanding.


It never says in the bible that Jesus IS God. (by Jey Black X)
(in reponse to the above quote) That Bible doesn't say that Jesus might be God. And who are you to question the Bible? {by Cougar Draven)
I worship God. Jesus is the way to God. He said no one gets to the father but by ME. So I worship God THROUGH Jesus. And I DO NOT worship the cross or the image of Jesus dying on the cross!!! In fact, I do not worship ANY image. I worship God. (by Vladlena)
They are going to say that God and Jesus are the same person, however, that was added to the religion in the Council of Nicea, since that was copied from Babylonian religion in which Nimrod and Tammuz where the same person. (by Archel)
The thing is, Jesus is gods presence on the earth. As stated above:
God the father,
God the son,
God the holy ghost.

You're only halfway right about going to church about someone dying. He died so that we may be freed, and then rose again showing that hell could be overcome. The mere symbol of Jesus on the cross represents that.

The rest of what you said is looking too far into it, and almost seems like you're looking for something to bash religion about. o_o

I'm in no way a true christian, though I do not claim to be an unbeliever. We worship jesus for dying for our sins, and we worship god for sending his only son. It's that simple. (by Demokritos)
I know many people that pray directly to Jesus, Worship Jesus, etc.
It just seems like a rather nice trick for 'ol lucifer to pull. Hey guys? want to get into heaven? Just worship this guy on a cross, and all your sins are forgiven! You can live a life of Sin, then as long as you really believe in Jesus, your slate is wiped clean and you go to heaven!


Doesn't it, just take a minute to look at it objectively, seem like something the King of all Lies would do? (by Jet Black X)
The Christian trinity was copied from the Babylonian Trinity. (by Archel)
(in response to Jet Black X's, "I'm not trying to anger people" post) A deity isn't human, and therefore isn't bound by human laws. If God is God but also God's Son, so be it. Jesus is more... God on earth, really.
In my religion we have different syncretisms of different Gods up the wazoo. We also have 100's of Gods that are aspects of other Gods but are also Gods in their own right.... Not to mention we have at least 6 creation myths. And what do we consider right and wrong? None of these. They are all different ways of explaining things, things that by themselves are too complicated for humans to understand. That's within my beliefs, anyways. But it makes sense for Christianity as well, I think (by Mortiferia)
I'm not trying to anger people... honestly I'm just worried. How could God's son also be God? They are clearly distinguished as two seperate entities.

And no one here has yet quoted the bible stating that Jesus is God. 9by Jet Black X)
(In response to Jet Black X's, "I'm not trying to anger people..." post) Matthew 16:16.
Archel, prove or concede. (by Coogar Draven)
(In response to Coogar Draven's, "Mathew 16:16" post)
Matt 16:16 only says

And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.


The Son. Not God.
Christianity was abolished in the Council of Nicea, Christians are really following the Babylonian religion and don't know it.


The Cross, The Trinity, Tammuz/Jesus, everything was taken from there. (by Anchel)
(In response to Jet Black X's, "Matthew 16:16 only says..." post) Well played.
1 Tim 3:16.
http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22127593

There's the first page of responses. You can read the rest there is you want to.

Anyway, I was (obviously) reading that, and I wanted to know what you guys thought. And I hope that nobody minds me copying and pasting. I didn't know if that'd be okay...

What do you think about all of this?
-Icy



 

Kazmarov

For a Free Scotland
#2
Regardless as to whether or not Jesus is God, he does make a good point about idolatry and the crucifix. I think that Catholicism could be viewed as sinful because unlike Judaism, Protestantism, and Islam, they have idols. Sure, it's not in their Decalouge, but it's still in an important part of the Bible.
 

raddmadd

Registered Member
#3
Jesus is God and God is Jesus but the Father isn't the Son and the Son isn't the Father.

Proof that Jesus is God is, we must be saved by what Jesus did on the cross. We are saved by faith in God alone, so if Jesus wasn't God we wouldn't be able to be saved by Him. thats why Jesus was the only way to Heaven "I am the Way the Truth and the Life, no one enters into Heaven but by me" (something like that you all know it ;)) Jesus is God, so we can be saved,and He can hold the full burden etc. and He was man so He could die for our sins.

"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." -Romans 10:9
 

scitsofreaky

Registered Member
#4
Jesus is God and God is Jesus but the Father isn't the Son and the Son isn't the Father.
Wow, that screams logical fallacy. I'll demonstrate. Let's say Jesus=A, God=B, Son=C, Father=D.
A is B, and B is A. Good thus far. But C isn't D, and D isn't C. On it's own, just fine. But since A=C since Jesus is the Son, and B=D since God is Father we can do some substitution and we get: A is B, and B is A. But A isn't B, and B isn't A. But if that doesn't make the problem obvious, I can do better. From the first part of your arguement we can get A=B=C=D which means we can do some more substitution and get: A is A, and A is A. But A isn't A, and A isn't A.
So since you have an fallacious argument to begin with, it doesn't matter what "evidence" you give because the argument will always remain invalid.
 

raddmadd

Registered Member
#5
Wow, that screams logical fallacy. I'll demonstrate. Let's say Jesus=A, God=B, Son=C, Father=D.
A is B, and B is A. Good thus far. But C isn't D, and D isn't C. On it's own, just fine. But since A=C since Jesus is the Son, and B=D since God is Father we can do some substitution and we get: A is B, and B is A. But A isn't B, and B isn't A. But if that doesn't make the problem obvious, I can do better. From the first part of your arguement we can get A=B=C=D which means we can do some more substitution and get: A is A, and A is A. But A isn't A, and A isn't A.
So since you have an fallacious argument to begin with, it doesn't matter what "evidence" you give because the argument will always remain invalid.
A is B and B is A but C isn't D and D isn't C
A is C and C is A and D is B and B is D
A isn't D and D isn't A and B isn't C and C isn't B

you said: "But A isn't B, and B isn't A"

but i said: A is B and B is A

you said: "A is A, and A is A. But A isn't A, and A isn't A."

but i said: "A is A and A is A"

Jesus and God are separate beings in One. But the Father isn't the Son and the Son isn't the Father. "A isn't A and A isn't A?" no, Jesus isn't the Father but He is God.

"A is A and A is A but A isn't A and A isn't A"

This can bring to mind that Jesus is God and God is the Father, so that would mean Jesus is the Father. But they are separate beings in One. Could I be wrong? Yes, this isn't scriptural, so this is fully from my "observations" or opinion.
 
I

Insomniac By Choice

Guest
#6
This isn't exactly new ground, you know. Of course, any reading of the Gospel of John will bring you clearly to the idea that Jesus is God, not only the opening ("In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God"), but also later statements like "I AM" said by Jesus which got everyone pissed off at him.

Anti-trinitarians have been around for a very long time, and you can secularly view John as a later development because it was written after the three related gospels Matthew, Mark, and Luke, but the Council of Nicea didn't abolish anything that wasn't already written in the works they accepted as canon. If you want to say they shaped the canon in a certain way, of course, but it's not a misinterpretation of what's there that's going to lead you to the concept of the Trinity.

And as far as the relationship of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost being contradictory, that's getting into applying logic to things that are by necessity beyond humanly logic. Which isn't a convincing argument in its favor (you can argue anything that way), but the circular point that if God is a supremely powerful, extra dimensional being, He can be beyond earthly reasoning is not something that can be completely disregarded, I don't think.

I always hate mathematical examples, but I think looking at how a flatman perceives three dimensional objects is at least a good start as to how we might perceive a high object ourselves. And I think you can keep open that possibility, while admitting that it makes no sense in our universe for three to be distinct and singular at the same time.

And I'll also agree that you can sin by worshipping through idols, although not necessarily. It's not a sin in the Old Testament to make an offering to God on a high place once used by pagans if you are doing it faithfully. However, if you start to imbue the ceremony itself with power rather than the ineffable God you're supposedly worshipping, therein lies the problem. Whether that's killing bulls, saying a specific prayer, or going to church on Sunday to sit in a pew.

I've always like Psalm Fifty on this issue.
 

Icyblackflame

Registered Member
#7
This isn't exactly new ground, you know. Of course, any reading of the Gospel of John will bring you clearly to the idea that Jesus is God, not only the opening ("In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God"), but also later statements like "I AM" said by Jesus which got everyone pissed off at him.

Anti-trinitarians have been around for a very long time, and you can secularly view John as a later development because it was written after the three related gospels Matthew, Mark, and Luke, but the Council of Nicea didn't abolish anything that wasn't already written in the works they accepted as canon. If you want to say they shaped the canon in a certain way, of course, but it's not a misinterpretation of what's there that's going to lead you to the concept of the Trinity.

And as far as the relationship of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost being contradictory, that's getting into applying logic to things that are by necessity beyond humanly logic. Which isn't a convincing argument in its favor (you can argue anything that way), but the circular point that if God is a supremely powerful, extra dimensional being, He can be beyond earthly reasoning is not something that can be completely disregarded, I don't think.

I always hate mathematical examples, but I think looking at how a flatman perceives three dimensional objects is at least a good start as to how we might perceive a high object ourselves. And I think you can keep open that possibility, while admitting that it makes no sense in our universe for three to be distinct and singular at the same time.

And I'll also agree that you can sin by worshipping through idols, although not necessarily. It's not a sin in the Old Testament to make an offering to God on a high place once used by pagans if you are doing it faithfully. However, if you start to imbue the ceremony itself with power rather than the ineffable God you're supposedly worshipping, therein lies the problem. Whether that's killing bulls, saying a specific prayer, or going to church on Sunday to sit in a pew.

I've always like Psalm Fifty on this issue.
I don't believe that Jesus isn't God. I think that it's a rather stupid argument. I just wanted to see what people here had to say. And you should argue with that girl on that site. You make some good points.
-Icy
 

Kazmarov

For a Free Scotland
#8
Well Christianity may to some not be a sin, but it certaintly wasn't originally planned by Jesus or the apostles. Jesus died, was resurrected, and said "yo, I'll be back in a jiffy" about twenty to thirty years passed, and people who knew him started dying by the truckload. Then the New Testament was written by a bunch of non-apostles. So you can defintely (and quite easily) say that every institution of Christianity is a superfluous lie. Whether you think that those insitutions combine to be a sinful practice is up to your own opinion. Personally, I think the idolatry of the crucifix and the cross, and the trangressions of most Christian insititutions combine to be sinful.

Be careful about what you worship, kids.
 
G

GCMD

Guest
#9
What you must understand is there is a defference in idols and the Earthly representation of GOD.

"Jesus" was supposed to be the only man born of a woman to have no sin. He was also supposed to the "ideal" that we all strive for.

That is the basis for Christianity, not an idol. It is an I-DEAL. A tangible ideal.

It is similar to the Muslim reverence of the Prophet Muhammad (SWT). It's not to be confused with "worship".

So the sin is on the individual. An individual can choose to identify the man with the deity. That's his sin.

As for the books (Bible, Qu'ran), they never teach worship of any man. All praises to Allah/GOD.

Anyone who argues otherwise needs to rethink/reread their books.
 
#10
Is anyone aware of the term transmutation when it refers to relgion?

Transmutation is a religion adopting parts of another religion to make those who convert to their religion feel more comfortable

Examples:

The Halo is from Egyptian sun disk worshiping.

The image of God (a big, white bearded man) is from Zues of Greek Mythology.



Why must a religion alter itself to make it more appealing?




On response to the theory: He/she brings up a good point....but the others bring up a counter point aswell tho about the whole god, the son, and the holy spirit thingie.......I can't remember, but wasn't the bible re-written or recopied like that one go was saying about the Council of Nicea?

I've noticed that logic and religion can't mix......which is why I don't much care for religion honestly, but I find it interesting what they all beleive.....I lived with a Buddhist once...it was interesting...his parents were Christian too lol