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Christian Heaven and Hell


Registered Member
I'm just going to apologize now, in case I offend anyone. This is just a rant, not me telling you that your life is a lie.

Warning, block of text approaching.

Let us say that there is a heaven and hell, and that when you are alive on earth, it is a test by god, to see where you go when you die.
Well he knows everything, he knows the future, he made you. He knows where you will end up when you die.
So why even have the tests? Why not just have heaven and hell? Why use someone as a puppet and force them to condemn themselves to either heaven or hell.
Also, why not just make everyone perfect, and just not have hell? Why even have people in the first place?
He is making people basically just to punish them.
So basically god is either one of two things. A giant jerk, or not real.
I'm going to side with the 2nd.
Also, if that is "perfect", then I sure am glad to be imperfect.

You don't have to agree. You can 100% disagree with me. Heck, even 101% disagree, just tell me what you have to say about this.


Creeping On You
In my church, we believe that God made us so that he could have a relationship with us. He gave us free will to do as we please though because he wanted us to choose to love him, not just mindlessly love him. There is a hell because of satan falling from heaven. If it wasn't for eve eating that forbidden apple, there would never have been any need for anyone to ever go to hell. But because adam and eve ate from the tree of knowledge, they knew about evil and that's why evil exists. It gave satan a foothold.

I don't really view the existence of hell or us not just starting in heaven as a punishment by God. He showed us love by giving us a way to still end up in heaven eventually, despite adam and eve's folly. just the way things are i guess.


Where is my Queen?
I agree with Smelnick. We are not pets of God because God gave us freewill, we can choose to obey by him or not. God doesn't pass judgement on you until you die. Now with the theory that God knows everything is questionable because he gave us freewill and we can change the future and follow a different path. And then of course you can go into the theory of networking that we already have predetermined paths which I don't believe is true because of freewill.


Registered Member
This is one of the key arguments when arguing against the existence of God. It's worth noting that different churches believe different things though. In fact freewill was one of the divisive issues in the emergence of Presbyterianism. Where Catholics thought we were in a natural state of sin and must spend our whole life repenting -they believed our eternal fate was predetermined- Presbyterian thought was that we were in control of our fate and so had to live a good christian life to secure our ticket to heaven so to speak.


/ˈɪzəˌbɛl/ pink 5
It's one of the things that I still haven't fully grasped. I don't even go to the concept of heaven and hell, but just the concept of adam and eve being punished for exercising their free will. It doesn't make sense to me except maybe free will given is only within a range of acceptable behaviours and not necessary freedom to do anything. It's not an absolute free will which is free from constraints.


Registered Member
We have free will, God may know what our future will be at any given point in time based on the path we are on at that moment but couldn't that be subject to change every time we do something of our own free will that alters it? Is it possible God only sees ahead so far on purpose, as part of leaving us to our own devices and seeing how it will turn out.

I have come to accept that just because I don't understand or can't explain all the mysteries of the supernatural doesn't mean they don't exist in some form or way that may be completely unfathomable to us in this existence.