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Religion Christian College Groups Discrimination

dDave

Well-Known Member
V.I.P.
Well, this has officially happened in California.

Christian Group ‘Derecognized’ at State’s Colleges Because It Requires Leaders to Hold Christian Beliefs ? and Writer Wonders What’s Next | Video | TheBlaze.com

This is absolutely outrageous. No other religious groups are being treated this way. Even other groups (such as environmentalists and LGBT) aren't being treated this way. This is blatantly discriminatory and nobody cares because apparently they think Christians deserve it.

Freaking California....
 

Major

4 legs good 2 legs bad
V.I.P.
No other religious groups are being treated this way.
Have you done any research on this subject at all or are you basing your entire opinion on one source?

"At most universities that have begun requiring religious groups to sign nondiscrimination policies, Jewish, Muslim, Catholic and mainline Protestant groups have agreed, saying they do not discriminate and do not anticipate that the new policies will cause problems. Hillel, the largest Jewish student organization, says some chapters have even elected non-Jews to student boards."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/10/u...tion=keypress&region=FixedLeft&pgtype=article

It sounds to me like the rules apply to groups of various religions, not just Christianity.

Even other groups (such as environmentalists and LGBT) aren't being treated this way.
I'm pretty sure all officially recognized groups have to agree to nondiscrimination policies.

"No campus shall recognize any fraternity, sorority, living group, honor society, or other student organization that discriminates on the basis of race, religion, national origin, ethnicity, color, age, gender, marital status, citizenship, sexual orientation, or disability."

If you have a source that backs your claim, please share it.

Freaking California....
Actually if you do more research into the subject (like read the article I pasted above), you'll see that colleges around the country have instituted the same policies. Bowdoin College in Maine, Vanderbilt, Tufts, to name a few. Cal State is probably only the largest one, so it gets the most attention.
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Honestly, it seems like theBlaze is trying to fire up its conservative base with all this Christian persecution propaganda while they usually blame it all on liberals and/or Muslims. And based on all of the emotional, hyperbolic, and oftentimes hateful statements in the comments sections, it seems to work pretty well. Usually when you dig deeper into stories like these, you find that some pertinent information was intentionally omitted in order to elicit those types of emotional responses found in the comments section and your post.

Yes, I know that type of thing is not exclusive to theBlaze or conservatives, which is why I try to get information from several different sources before forming a strong opinion.
 
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Dr4gon

Registered Member
V.I.P.
So that means that there arent any religious organizations at uni - just generic groups of whatever. Then why not just call them Generic organization #1 and Generic organization #2 etc etc. I really dont get how they could be called anything else. Imo calling a organization "Christian" when its not really Christian is false advertising. So yeah they should just toss the fake titles.
 

Major

4 legs good 2 legs bad
V.I.P.
I assume the group titles are up to the groups to decide for themselves. I really don't see your point though. How is a group that prays together and studies/discusses religion not a religious group? Just because they are required to be inclusive and nondiscriminatory? You know, they can always simply NOT ELECT a person who they don't want to be their leader. If a non-religious leader is elected for a religious group, then what does that say about the group that elected him or her?

But while we're on the subject of religious groups, does a state university even have the legal right to endorse or aid a religious group? It would seem to violate the Establishment Clause in the First Amendment and the "wall of separation between church and state" that Thomas Jefferson spoke about.
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
What it says is a large amount of non Christians joined the group for the specific purpose of electing a non Christian leader. I can't imagine why this is an issue because I would never join a group I don't agree with, it seems stupid and insane to want to join a group you don't agree with only to cry "discrimination" or to try and infiltrate the group, but reasonableness and sanity are at a premium these days. This is like me waning to join a campus KKK group then complaining because they won't let me in because I'm Catholic and Hispanic. Makes no sense.
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They aren't aiding or endorsing any religious group, they are just allowed to have a group on campus, which does not violate the Constitution.
 
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Major

4 legs good 2 legs bad
V.I.P.
What it says is a large amount of non Christians joined the group for the specific purpose of electing a non Christian leader. I can't imagine why this is an issue because I would never join a group I don't agree with, it seems stupid and insane to want to join a group you don't agree with only to cry "discrimination" or to try and infiltrate the group, but reasonableness and sanity are at a premium these days. This is like me waning to join a campus KKK group then complaining because they won't let me in because I'm Catholic and Hispanic. Makes no sense.
I think most college students probably have better things to do with their time than trying to take over religious groups.

They aren't aiding or endorsing any religious group, they are just allowed to have a group on campus, which does not violate the Constitution.
Being officially "recognized" is pretty much the same thing as endorsing.

"Loss of recognition means we lose 3 things: free access to rooms (this will cost our chapters $13k-30k/year to reserve room). We also lose access to student activities programs, including the new student fairs where we meet most students."

Is that stuff not aiding?
 

dDave

Well-Known Member
V.I.P.
I think most college students probably have better things to do with their time than trying to take over religious groups.
I think you'd be surprised just how much spare time many college students have and what many of them spend their time doing.

Being officially "recognized" is pretty much the same thing as endorsing.
It's just... no, just no.

"Loss of recognition means we lose 3 things: free access to rooms (this will cost our chapters $13k-30k/year to reserve room). We also lose access to student activities programs, including the new student fairs where we meet most students."

Is that stuff not aiding?
It's a community of students in the school. Nobody is being forced to participate and those that ATTEND the group aren't required to hold any specific views of any kind.

Gotta love how you can have a LGBT group, a video game group, a politics group, and even a Dungeons and Dragons group but once you bring religion into it then it's just discriminatory and wrong by a lot of people's standards.

This rule is literally the same as saying that a young conservatives for America group would be required to allow liberals in their leadership. Take that the other way, a young liberals for America group forced to allow a conservative in their leadership. Does that make any sense to anyone?

I've personally run Christian groups in schools and we had very strict rules that only allowed Christians into the leadership positions. I would never continue to run a group if we were being forced to allow someone of any other religion into a leadership role, I would shut it down just for that.
 

Major

4 legs good 2 legs bad
V.I.P.
Thanks for completely ignoring my first post, Dave.

I think you'd be surprised just how much spare time many college students have and what many of them spend their time doing.
So they spend a lot of time partying and doing other unproductive things. I have still never heard of college students wishing to take over religious groups. Honestly, I just don't think it's a problem that would come up very often, if ever.

It's just... no, just no.
Can you please dispute my claims with facts or logic or is everything just "No" and we should all just take your word for it? It would be like someone replying to your post with "I'm right, you're wrong, I win. /thread"

Gotta love how you can have a LGBT group, a video game group, a politics group, and even a Dungeons and Dragons group but once you bring religion into it then it's just discriminatory and wrong by a lot of people's standards.
Those groups aren't allowed to discriminate either, so I have no idea what your point is.

This rule is literally the same as saying that a young conservatives for America group would be required to allow liberals in their leadership. Take that the other way, a young liberals for America group forced to allow a conservative in their leadership. Does that make any sense to anyone?
It's a fair comparison, but again, I don't know what your point is. When all groups are held to the same standards, then I don't see how it is discrimination against one particular group to require that leadership positions be open to everyone. Please explain how Christians are being singled out.
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Also, if you would like to discuss what is and what isn't discrimination, we were having a debate about that in another thread before you decided to bow out, not even acknowledging a post that I worked pretty hard on in direct response to you.
 
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Dr4gon

Registered Member
V.I.P.
I assume the group titles are up to the groups to decide for themselves. I really don't see your point though. How is a group that prays together and studies/discusses religion not a religious group? Just because they are required to be inclusive and nondiscriminatory? You know, they can always simply NOT ELECT a person who they don't want to be their leader. If a non-religious leader is elected for a religious group, then what does that say about the group that elected him or her?...
That Christian group was derecognized because they said their leaders had to be Christians. That means that the college is demanding that they allow non-Christians to be members and even leaders.
A Christian group with non-Christian members is NOT a Christian group. Its a generic religious group. But maybe they have atheist members too so that would mean its just a generic group. So calling that a Christian group would be a lie since people from any (or no) religion can join up.

If I ever join a Christian group and I discover it has non-Christian members then fine. But I will stop calling it a Christian group. Only Christians are Christian.
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
I think most college students probably have better things to do with their time than trying to take over religious groups.


I disagree, most spent their time on the most frivolous nonsense, and have no problem trying to "enact social change" as they see it.
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"Loss of recognition means we lose 3 things: free access to rooms (this will cost our chapters $13k-30k/year to reserve room). We also lose access to student activities programs, including the new student fairs where we meet most students."

Is that stuff not aiding?


No, because that's available for everyone. If they were providing that for one religious group and not another, then it would violate the Constitution.
 
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