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Canadian Election 2011

Smelnick

Creeping On You
V.I.P.
The rise and rise of Stephen Harper | World news | guardian.co.uk

Well, we're going to the polls again. The opposition got their way yet again and our minority government is being ousted by a non-confidence vote.

I guess this pretty much only pertains to Canadians, but I'm sure the rest of you guys are interested somewhat too.

It's actually such a pointless election too. The polls are suggesting it'll end up the same as the last two elections. The conservatives with a minority government, the liberals, the NDP and the bloc quebecois forming most of the opposition.

Although, from what I've seen in the paper over the last year, I'm surmising, and hoping that it's the NDP that gain leader of the opposition. Also, considering how much of a douche the liberals have been with all the coalition shit, and just general raising of shit where there needs not be shit, I wouldn't be surprised at a majority for the Conservatives.

Honestly, I know that lots of people like a minority government because it means they have less power, but have we really seen anything good about keeping Harper in check these last 5-6 years? The conservatives stimulus budget got us through 2008, despite the Liberals bitching. This time around, the Conservatives didn't get the NDP's support for the budget, and so it fell. (I'm betting there was some NDP/Liberal behind the scenes back scratching) I mean really, the Conservatives handed the NDP a lot of stuff in the budget that they wanted. 300 million bucks extra towards old people? Possible eradication of the nation's deficit by 2014-15? How are those things the opposition couldn't get behind?

I hope the conservatives get a majority government, because although Harper has his negatives, I've seen a lot of backbone in him the last few years, and I wanna see the good he can do without having to tiptoe around the liberals everytime he enters parliament. Also, I like what the conservatives are platforming, and I like that Harper is willing to try and placate the NDP, since the NDP are pushing for a lot of things I agree with (just not enough that I want them in power)

So yah, I predict a Harper majority, with NDP in their backpocket. If that can happen, I foresee quite a few positive changes in Canada.

What are your thoughts?

Edit:

Just also wanted to comment on the Green party. It seems every election that people bring up the green party, and they have risen sort of to the level of the Bloc. They have a bit of say, but noone takes them seriously. I like having them in parliament though. Environment is something of an issue, and its good to see that it has a voice in parliament. However, the green party's platform has never really addressed much outside of that. Not from what I've seen anyways.
 
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Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
V.I.P.
Con 43 Lib 24 NDP 16 BQ 10 Green 6

Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s Conservatives begin an election campaign this weekend far ahead of their political rivals in public favour and would be poised to win a “comfortable” majority if Canadians cast their votes now, a new poll has found.....
Tories begin election far ahead of Liberals: poll

I agree with you man, this election is stupid, and so were the last few elections that we had in the past few years. I've pretty much voted for the Liberals all my life, but I don't like what they've been about the last few years, and I cannot stand Stephen Harper, but I don't see the Conservatives losing.
 

Smelnick

Creeping On You
V.I.P.
Also, here is a link to the major parties to pick from's websites. Just for reference etc.

Conservative Party of Canada | Prime Minister Stephen Harper
--------http://www.conservative.ca/party/founding_principles/

NDP
---------http://www.ndp.ca/vision

Liberal Party of Canada - Canada's progressive, compassionate & responsible alternative
---------Just click around in the links. Figures that a party in shambles can't make a simpler webpage. OMG THEY HAVE A COOL COMPLEX WEBSITE!!! BEST BET FOR RULING CANADA OMG OMG!!!

English - Bloc Québécois
--------- The site is mostly in french so I cant find a link to their platform. Seeing as the bloc wants to seperate Quebec from Canada and become its own country, they aren't much of a threat anyways.

Welcome | Green Party of Canada
-------- LOL, they have an attack ad, attacking other parties for using attack ads... Green Values | Green Party of Canada They've been growing as a party and I wouldn't be surprised if after the next few elections, they surpass the Bloc in how many seats they hold.
------
Con 43 Lib 24 NDP 16 BQ 10 Green 6



Tories begin election far ahead of Liberals: poll

I agree with you man, this election is stupid, and so were the last few elections that we had in the past few years. I've pretty much voted for the Liberals all my life, but I don't like what they've been about the last few years, and I cannot stand Stephen Harper, but I don't see the Conservatives losing.

Yah man, I didn't mind Chretien, but it seems that ever since Martin, and then Dion and now Ignattief have been leading, the Liberals just seemed to lose focus. It's like they got all butthurt about losing to the Conservatives, and now they're like 'fuck canada, we just wanna get into power no matter what' I really hope they get a decent leader soon, because parliament needs a decent opposition.

As for Harper, yah, I didn't like him much at first either. However, he's grown on me quite a bit. He's only human of course, and he didn't start off so great because he's had the opposition on his heels the whole time he's been in power. However, I think he's been PM long enough now that he can handle a majority. Basically, all I'm asking for is someone who cares about Canadians more than he cares about his paycheque and title.
 
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PretzelCorps

Registered Member
It's so stupid, because I'd really like to actually see some change around here, you know, shake things up a bit around Ottawa; we've had a Conservative minority remain exactly the same for five years now, and while status quo alone isn't bad, it's not necessarily good either.

I think the Liberals have gone full retard for the last five years, or something. It's one farce after the next; I mean, Ignatieff? Really?? I'm not one to buy into attack ads so quickly, but 30 years without coming back to Canada? That's just ridiculous. You can't lead a country you've been absent from for half of your life, you morons. And now they're calling for an election with all this crap floating over their heads. I want to vote for you. But I can't, because you're stupid, unorganized, and don't really seem to care.

Guaranteed, unless the Coalition rears it's ugly head again, or the opposition has some other magic ace up its sleeve, it's going to be yet another Stephen Harper minority. Just you watch.
 
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handyman999

New Member
-JUST A THOUGHT-

..To All.., Vote with your Head and not with your friends,
The old RED<WHITE<BLUE doesn't control this Country,
The RED MEAPLE LEAF, YES You the Canadians Do...
..Blue is USA Controled,
..Red is know more, Specialy with that leader,
..Green is nice but if you go ECO,
..But even if Orange do not WIN, They Fight for my Health Care,
and will it still be there when I retire, ...I HOPE SO...
..Thats if Blue doesn't take it out. Even the USA wants to use are
Canadian idea for their Health Care, like many more of are Canadian
Idea that they stole or use totay in their NAME.
---JUST A THOUGHT---VOTE WISELY---
 

Smelnick

Creeping On You
V.I.P.
-JUST A THOUGHT-

..To All.., Vote with your Head and not with your friends,
The old RED<WHITE<BLUE doesn't control this Country,
The RED MEAPLE LEAF, YES You the Canadians Do...
..Blue is USA Controled,
..Red is know more, Specialy with that leader,
..Green is nice but if you go ECO,
..But even if Orange do not WIN, They Fight for my Health Care,
and will it still be there when I retire, ...I HOPE SO...
..Thats if Blue doesn't take it out. Even the USA wants to use are
Canadian idea for their Health Care, like many more of are Canadian
Idea that they stole or use totay in their NAME.
---JUST A THOUGHT---VOTE WISELY---
NDP does fight for healthcare, which is why I like having them in the opposition. However, with their leader being sickly, and him possibly stepping down soon, I wouldn't trust the government in an unstable party's hands. The 'blue' is throwing a lot of bones to garner the 'orange's support, so as long as the 'red's don't get into power, I think healthcare is just fine.
 

japedol

Registered Member
What I don't like about Canadian politics is that the parties with the best economic agenda's have the worst environmental agenda's and vice versa.

The Conservatives have done well at steering Canada through the recession and back, but I was bothered by their spinning of the coalition issue. The coalition was painted as illegal and traitorous by some of the more enthusiastic Tories, even though it objectively, factually wasn't. Harper also made a big fuss over the proposed carbon tax, despite the fact that pricing carbon would be one of the most sensible and business friendly approaches to dealing with global warming, since it doesn't necessitate government micro-managing, meddling and inane rule-making.

I liked the liberals under Dion. They were much more business friendly then the Greens and NDP, as usual, but that quality didn't compromise their environmental stance, as seems to usually be the case.

However they seem to have abandoned the carbon tax idea, and are politically sort of slimy now. They've built an attack campaign trying to paint the conservative government as one which is giving corporations tax breaks as Canada slides in to deficit, despite that we are in a very sound fiscal position, and will not remain in deficit for long. They attack the conservatives for expanding prisons, despite that the tougher crime laws liberals just voted for necessitate more prison space. How dumb do they think we are?

I want the old liberals of Dion back. Or, maybe even better, a Green/Conservative coalition. But I seriously doubt either of those things will happen. I think I'll just vote for the Greens. Maybe if the Greens get more support, the more business friendly parties will alter their environmental policies, and then I can vote for a party that's not crazy.
 

Smelnick

Creeping On You
V.I.P.
What I don't like about Canadian politics is that the parties with the best economic agenda's have the worst environmental agenda's and vice versa.

The Conservatives have done well at steering Canada through the recession and back, but I was bothered by their spinning of the coalition issue. The coalition was painted as illegal and traitorous by some of the more enthusiastic Tories, even though it objectively, factually wasn't. Harper also made a big fuss over the proposed carbon tax, despite the fact that pricing carbon would be one of the most sensible and business friendly approaches to dealing with global warming, since it doesn't necessitate government micro-managing, meddling and inane rule-making.

I liked the liberals under Dion. They were much more business friendly then the Greens and NDP, as usual, but that quality didn't compromise their environmental stance, as seems to usually be the case.

However they seem to have abandoned the carbon tax idea, and are politically sort of slimy now. They've built an attack campaign trying to paint the conservative government as one which is giving corporations tax breaks as Canada slides in to deficit, despite that we are in a very sound fiscal position, and will not remain in deficit for long. They attack the conservatives for expanding prisons, despite that the tougher crime laws liberals just voted for necessitate more prison space. How dumb do they think we are?

I want the old liberals of Dion back. Or, maybe even better, a Green/Conservative coalition. But I seriously doubt either of those things will happen. I think I'll just vote for the Greens. Maybe if the Greens get more support, the more business friendly parties will alter their environmental policies, and then I can vote for a party that's not crazy.
I find it suprising that you liked Dion actually. I always took him for an idiot. The carbon tax had decent intentions, but that kind of tax would have hiked up the price of everything, and during a time when most people were questioning their job security, and with gas prices already sky high, I'm not surprised he was shot down.

I agree that the coalition that the liberals, ndp and bloc planned wasn't illegal, it was hardly in the spirit of parliament either. As Canadians we elected who we figured could best run the country, and I would have been supremely miffed if all the other parties simply joined into one simply to manipulate themselves into having a majority government.
 

Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
V.I.P.
Will the Green Party pick up a seat? Elizabeth May doesn't get into the leaders debates, does she?

My prediction is a minority Conservative goverment, smaller caucus than last time around, with the Liberals picking up seats, the Bloc staying close to the same and the NDP losing about 10 seats.
 

japedol

Registered Member
I find it suprising that you liked Dion actually. I always took him for an idiot. The carbon tax had decent intentions, but that kind of tax would have hiked up the price of everything, and during a time when most people were questioning their job security, and with gas prices already sky high, I'm not surprised he was shot down.

I agree that the coalition that the liberals, ndp and bloc planned wasn't illegal, it was hardly in the spirit of parliament either. As Canadians we elected who we figured could best run the country, and I would have been supremely miffed if all the other parties simply joined into one simply to manipulate themselves into having a majority government.
The Economist commissioned Cambridge Econometrics to model the effects that a carbon tax equal to one percent of Britain's GDP would have. In the model, other subsidies, tax breaks and regulations aimed at reducing green house gas emissions were scaled back or eliminated. The result was that government revenue increased, but the cost of electricity went down and output rose.

Taxing carbon: Worth a go | The Economist

Now, I haven't read the study, and it pertains to Britain, but it does demonstrate that a carbon tax isn't economic doom. It's not necessarily as costly to society as expensive subsidies to green energy companies that end up failing, and it doesn't require clumsy government management and distortion.

The Carbon Tax would be relatively hands off and market-oriented. Generally, Capitalism functions so well because it can evaluate the social utility of goods through and supply and demand, and companies behave accordingly. Unfortunately, Capitalism isn't very good at pricing externalities like the emission of Co2 and their cost to society, so why not let government do so?

That said, the best argument in favour of a carbon tax is simply that reducing green house gas emissions should be more important then protecting a very prosperous country like ours from what would be a relatively small economic hardship.


Also, in Canada we don't elect our leader, we elect MP's and the leader of the party with the most seats becomes PM. The MP's represent their individual ridings. Because of our multi-party parliamentary system, it's always possible that the PM may not actually be so popular.

If the a majority of the peoples representatives reflect a certain political outlook, and if that outlook is not reflected in the ruling party, then something is amiss. In this case, a majority of the peoples representatives were left-leaning and opposed Harpers actions, but the ruling party was conservative because the leftists vote was split. The ability of our representatives to remove a government if it furthers their political agenda is a safeguard of democracy, because it ensures that the leading party accurately reflects the politics of the MP's we elect.

Also, even if we disagree on the morality of the coalition issue, that doesn't excuse those Tories who blew it way out of proportion.
 
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