Bush's 3rd Term

Discussion in 'Politics & Law' started by MenInTights, May 30, 2010.

  1. MenInTights

    MenInTights not a plastic bag

    I was thinking yesterday about all of the criticism surrounding Bush that swept Obama into office and I realized how little has really changed. This is a quick list off the top of the criticism that I remember from 2 years ago along with a quick response to today's situation. It doesn't seem like much has really changed. In many cases, I would expect there should be more anger now.
    (For the sake of this thread, I'm trying to be the messenger here and not take sides on any issue. Some of the criticism I agree with, others I could care less about and some of it I disagree with. To be fair though, I liked Bush on many things such as the tax cuts and I thought he was generally a good war President. My personal take is Obama took Bush's faults and magnified them.)

    #1: Bush got us involved in an endless war.
    Comment: Obama has offered no solution to the Afghan war.

    #2: GITMO was an abhorrent violation of human rights.
    No comment needed

    #3: Bush took Clinton's surplus and turned it into a deficent
    No comment needed

    #4: Warrentless wiretaps
    warrentless wiretaps + cell phone tracking

    #5: Rendition
    Rendition + a Supreme Court nominee that says indefinate detention just for funding terrorist

    #6: Didn't care about the US Border
    no comment needed

    #7: Other nations didn't respect US
    Iran going nuclear, NK sinking SK ships. Bad blodd between US and Israel

    #8: Federal government was too slow to respond to Katrina
    Obama now has a Katrina of his own that he ignored for the first few weeks and has been utterly ineffective in dealing with.

    As a liberal how do you reconcile these issues? What does this say about the hatred for Bush?

    I just realized that this message board is a fair repository of hate Bush thought. Just a few I pulled up from past messages. I'm not going to quote anyone, just what was said:
    Just a few. What President are they talking about again?
    Last edited: May 30, 2010
    Oooh_snap and Wade8813 like this.

  2. Sim

    Sim Registered Member

    I'm disappointed Obama has not yet put an end to all of these horrible policies of the Bush administration, but only to some.

    Yet Obama is the best hope that any of it will changed eventually, although I'm not sure how big that hope is. But if Obama won't change it, nobody will. Someone like Obama is the maximum of reasonableness the American system will allow to be elected, even if that's not enough.

    But I want to say a few things: I think there is a fundamental difference between starting certain policies in the first place, and not ending them. That means Bush is much more to blame, simply because he is responsible for these laws and policies in the first place. Obama does not deserve the same blame, just because he did not end all of them. It's ultimately more evil to start all this in the first place.

    And then, Obama has at least done a few (even when that's by far not enough!) to correct these mistakes:

    #1 There is an end to the Iraq war and a deadline for Afghanistan is being discussed.

    #2 It's still Obama's declared goal to close Gitmo -- eagerly waiting if this will happen.

    #7 Thanks to Obama, US international relations have *extremely* improved. For example, Russia no longer considers the US an enemy, and they have joined sanctions, alongside China, against Iran for the first time.

    As for your other points, agreed, Obama is a disappointment. But you cannot have it all. He is still the lesser evil (and I don't think even for a second that a Republican would do better).
    Tucker likes this.
  3. MenInTights

    MenInTights not a plastic bag

    Not necessarily. I think Ron Paul has a lot more conviction on the matter than any other politician: http://www.generalforum.com/law-political-theory/what-if-ron-paul-71455.html

    I also think Paul could win in 2012:
    Election 2012: Barack Obama 42%, Ron Paul 41% - Rasmussen Reports
    Ron Paul could win all of the Conservative vote because he's a fiscal hawk and that's the only thing we will be voting on in 2012.
    He could win some of the liberal vote because of what I posted above.
    He could win a majority of the ignorant swing vote because instead of being young, black and from the north, he's old, white and from the south. Trust me, that's the way swing voters in America decide things. Vote the opposite of what they voted last time.

    Ron Paul talks a lot about things that you talk about Sim. And most people trust Paul is speaking on convictions because he's said these things for ages and he's not exactly winning the Republican leadership over by saying it.
    Last edited: May 31, 2010
  4. Unity

    Unity #AllTogetherNowSTL Staff Member

    One thing to add to many of the items on the list (not all), is that they take Congress to happen, which is never easy. There are "Blue Dog" Democrats and party-voting Republicans kind of impeding that; not saying that with malice, just the current Congressional environment right now!
    Tucker likes this.
  5. Bananas

    Bananas Endangered Species

    The one who can influence congress the most. Im sure Obama's criticisms will come, you can be assured he will either do the wrong thing or fail to do anything.

    You have to also appreciate timing. Bushs criticism and every presidents before him criticisms come at the end of terms when people reflect back on their tenure and the wheels of (democratic) reform start to gain motion. Its only healthy for the public to want what is best for them and pick on its leaders failings.

    I think I made this one; as far as Im aware the current administration is not responsible for any of the above**

    **except the failing to finish conflicts however I dont think that was in Obama's manifesto.
    Tucker likes this.
  6. CaptainObvious

    CaptainObvious Son of Liberty V.I.P.

    Yeah, but that's true with every single administration. Reagan got a lot done with a Democrat run Congress and Clinton got a lot done with a Republican led Congress, I know that sounds contrdictory to my first sentence, but the difference is they both worked on compromise whereas Obama seems at least to shove things down everyone's throat and has a "my way or the highway" mentality that impede's much of that.
  7. Merc

    Merc Certified Shitlord V.I.P. Lifetime

    Well I'm not a liberal but I can say that I've seen a lot of Bush's mess blamed on Obama so far. People think when a new president comes in, he's just going to bring a mop and be done in a few weeks. Well, idiots think like that anyways or maybe people with lobotamies. The pro-Obama side will say he needs more time and that what he has inherited is a big load of shit. The anti-Obama crowd will pull the "see-we-told-you-he-wasn't-the-messiah" bullshit because he's taking longer than a month to improve things. It's a lose/lose.

    Personally, I'd rather have Obama around if I had to pick between the two. At least with Obama, he's allowing scientific progress. Bush was . . . well, not a fan.
  8. CaptainObvious

    CaptainObvious Son of Liberty V.I.P.

    Really? I see it quite the opposite. Isn't Obama himself STILL blaming the Bush administration for everything especially the economic situation?

    I don't think anyone expected him to bring a mop and clean things up, but what I can say is I don't think anyone actually expected him to make things worse. It's not a lose/lose, there is plenty he could have done differently.

    EDIT: I mean, hell, didn't he even imply the BP oil spill is Bush's fault just the other day because of lax regulation? Never mind the fact he's had a year and a half to fix said regulation should he so wish.
  9. Wade8813

    Wade8813 Registered Member

    There are always things that get blamed on current presidents, even if they're the result of administrations from a decade or two ago, or for things that a president has little to no control over. That said, I've seen accusations about specific things Obama's done.
  10. Unity

    Unity #AllTogetherNowSTL Staff Member

    On a side/joking note, I really wish I had time to find the stuff from the Daily Show during the healthcare reform period. The term "Shoving it down our throats" was used by just about every conservative pundit, Congressman/woman, reporter, protester, etc. :) Anyone else catch that?

    CO, with the comment about the year and a half Obama has had to make Oil Regulation more strict, I just take it back to the current Congressional atmosphere. You're definitely right about the Reagan and Clinton administration's dealings with Congress, but we are in a different age.

    Things are a lot more rigid with no votes coming in at, well, nearly everything the Obama administration wants to pass.

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