Barry Bonds/Shoeless Joe Jackson

Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
V.I.P.
#1
I know there's been a lot of players involve in scandals during Major League Baseball history. But those two are very well known scandals in MLB history even to the average Baseball viewer. I was wondering who you disrespect the most? Barry Bonds for taking ''steroids''(I know it hasn't been proven yet, but come on we weren't born yesterday) or Shoeless Joe Jackson throwing the 1919 World Series? If you were the Commisionner of the league who would you ban from baseball and why do you feel that way?
 

Merc

Certified Shitlord
V.I.P.
#2
Well, there isn't too much evidence against Bonds, all I have to say against him is that he's a total dick who may have done 'roids.

If Bonds did it, I'd have to say he was a bigger scandal. Why?

Shoeless Joe robbed the baseball fans of one great game. He made them believe they were watching an honest player throw a respectable game. Wrong on both counts.

Not only has Barry Bonds (the "if" scenario again since we aren't 100% sure) robbed the nation of half an entire baseball season with his phony chase for 756, but he's degraded baseball further than it has ever been. Kids and adults look up to the guy, love watching him hit . . . imagine the incredible blow it would be to these people to learn that a role model and icon of theirs is nothing but a juicy cheater. If this Bonds thing is proven true, it will be the unfortunate cherry on top of an expected sundae that nobody wanted to eat.
 

Hoosier_Daddy

Registered Member
#3
Merc,

Just as a point of information. Shoeless Joe Jackson didn't rob the fans of anything. He wasn't in on the fix. He knew about it though and didn't report it. That's why he was banned from baseball. His stats through the series bear this out.

Hoosier.
 

Babe_Ruth

Sultan of Swat
Staff member
V.I.P.
#4
Hoosier is right, Shoeless Joe Jackson Shoeless Joe Jackson was a very uneducated man who couldn’t do much but play baseball. He knew about the throwing of the games and agreed but changed his mind, and decided he wanted no part of it. His offensive statistics show that that is true, based on his series-leading .375 average. However, he did commit a couple of costly errors that led to Reds wins.
 
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bluedog

Guest
#5
Upon consideration of the question, "I" would have trouble placing "blame" on either player mentioned in bringing "disgrace" to the sport of baseball. My conclusions are as followers.......

First we will consider the case of "shoeless Joe". A great player from what I understand but with no formal education at all, but very well possessing the talent to play with the best of his time peroid. With the little research that I have come across with the facts being as stated I would be hard pressed to see what justification the "league" had in making a "permanent" ban upon such a player as Joe Jackson. The "only" crime that he truly was quilty of was remaining silent with the fact that he had privy to the world series "fix", as it was never porven that he tanked any plays or accepted any monies for contributions to the betting scam. There is no jusitification for him remaing silent but that was his down fall. He took pride in the fact that he was not considered an informer, and from I understand about the time period in which he played the conditions for the players were extreme in the way that managment treated them, with no consideration for any profit sharing in relation to their real value to the team and no pension plan, yet having to be treated as property and guaranteed nothing except the possibilty of walking in one day to be dimissed with no futher obligation on the part of managment. Playing under these conditions I could see how someone would be tempted to ensure a little "private" 401. But as I said there is no excuse for such action as the fans were the ones that suffered the most. Sure there should have been punishment but a total banning was just unreasonable for his part in the offense.

Next we consider Barry Bonds.....another player that I would have trouble considering any punishment as far as the breaking of the home run record.....for how can one player be singled out among the entirety of the league that must have been privy to the rampant use of the performance enhancing drugs. How can any say the he did not hit the home runs? Sure perhaps he was helped along the lines of muscle structure and endurance but the "fact" remains it takes more than muscles to hit.....it takes hand/eye coordination, timming and experience, none of which was helped by the use of roids.

I am not upholding the use of these drugs, but as I said how can one player be singled out as the "poster boy" for all? How about the many pitchers he faced, where they "clean"? How about the records that fell before his total home run record? Are we going to disallow all the records from the mid to late 90s? Do we know how many of the records fell while someone was under the influence of these durgs? No, of course not...and we probably never will.

Mr. Bonds was a fantastic player before the alleged use of drugs, and most likely would be in the hall of fame as we speak had he retired when he was 35. His pesonality just got the best of him as he was faced with the one foe that eventually overtakes all of us.....age. One can look at his "trubulent" history with the press and clearly see that he has the type personality that must always come out on top......as the saying goes....he would bury himself just to prove to someone that he could use the shovel. He simply caught caught up in the chase, and I blame the management as well as the players association for allowing this blight to overtake the once great sport of baseball.....for both verywell knew that this was going on...all the while the players salaries went up....the managments bank accounts grew and the media had great news to report.....as this was done in an "attempt" to keep the "fan" loyal after the many labor struggles and strikes blackend the sport....as I said I would not or will not "condemn" one player for making actions that everyone should have to pay for. BD
 
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DirtDog

Guest
#6
Merc,

Just as a point of information. Shoeless Joe Jackson didn't rob the fans of anything. He wasn't in on the fix. He knew about it though and didn't report it. That's why he was banned from baseball. His stats through the series bear this out.

Hoosier.
I agree with you totally! Joe was robbed due to the rest of the teams greedy ways! And a cheap owner!

In the Series he hit a robust .375 while setting a major league World Series record with 12 hits, one of which was the only home run hit during the entire Series. Does that sound like the type of performance one trying to lose would have?
 

redsoxocd

living on the border
#7
Merc,

Just as a point of information. Shoeless Joe Jackson didn't rob the fans of anything. He wasn't in on the fix. He knew about it though and didn't report it. That's why he was banned from baseball. His stats through the series bear this out.

Hoosier.
actually he was in on the fix. He accepted the $5,000 to throw the game. The thing is that no one can prove that he did anything to throw the WS. He batted .375 and he had the series only HR. He also played very good defense during this series. It wasnt until after the WS when he decided that he was going to try and give the money back. And that because he didnt recieve all of the money that he was promised.

Out of Bonds and Joe Jackson I disrespect bonds that most. Yes there is no substantial evidence that he has taken steriods...well he took them but according to him he didnt know what that what he thought was flax seed oil was actually the clear...but if you look at pictures it is obvious that he took them. The only thing incriminating Jackson is that he took the money. But bonds is a different story. It is pretty obvious that he took them, and without them he wouldn't have gotten to 759.
 

Hoosier_Daddy

Registered Member
#8
actually he was in on the fix. He accepted the $5,000 to throw the game. The thing is that no one can prove that he did anything to throw the WS. He batted .375 and he had the series only HR. He also played very good defense during this series. It wasnt until after the WS when he decided that he was going to try and give the money back. And that because he didnt recieve all of the money that he was promised.
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When I say he wasn't in on the fix I mean he didn't take part in trying to throw the series. He knew about it, and like you said, he did accept $5,000 from Sleepy Bill Burns. What supports the case that he didn't involve himself in the throwing of the series is he did report it to Charlie Comisky and even asked to be benched for the series because of it. The problem is Comisky reportedly didn't take him seriously.


Hoosier.
 
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natnsoxfan

Guest
#9
Let me start off by saying I believe Bonds is guilty on all counts. That being said, if there were cold hard evidence against Bonds, you still have to abide by the program you set in place, you can't give Bonds a life time ban if he tests positive, and not Juan Rincon when he did, otherwise it looks very bad and also just proves that it was a witch hunt against Bonds. I disrespect Bonds a lot more though,
Bonds cheated not only the game, but American sports, of its most sacred record. What Shoeless Joe did was bad, but there aren't enough words to say how much I hate, a word that I would use for few people, and disrespect the All-Time homerun leader. He is not the homerun king, just the leader.

At least he'll never win a ring.
 
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Overbay17

Guest
#10
I would have to say that the player I disrespect most for what he did was Barry Bonds. While Joe Jackson was originally in on the fix, it seems unlikely considering his phenomenal stats in the Series that he actually went through with it.

I have to agree with a couple other posters, that despite lack of an actual failed drug test, it is obvious that Barry Bonds took steroids...he just got too big too fast for it to be anything else. Plus, at the very least he's admitted to taking "the clear", however unknowingly, which would indicate that at least for one season (2003) he was definately on performance enhancing drugs. I hope A-Rod remains healthy and productive enough for long enough to break this record. He got to 500 faster than anyone in history, so it's possible.:clap: