Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by nothingspecial, Sep 10, 2007.

  1. nothingspecial

    nothingspecial New Member

    Has it been considered that as we study the universe, we find that there really cannot be such a thing as "the smallest particle". Therefore, we find an infinite chasm in which the same thing never happens.

    Following from this, we may conclude that the universe has always existed, and therefore all which may happen within the bounds of physical law has already occurred, save the events of the future. Is atheism logical?...
    This view of the universe would therefore mean that any wild fantasy you've ever imagined has happened in the past, or is going to happen within the next few minutes.

    Guess what? You and Maryl Streep were in the same 8th grade gym class some trillions of years ago. Don't remember? Of course not. The matter that once were you are now probably scatterred across infinity. Her's lie out far out beyond our sun.

    Although matter in time may not appear to be a problem for atheism, we may examine the matter which is in space: How much matter exists?
    It is conceivable that there is an infinte amount of matter. This would mean that Maryl Streep IS in your 8th grade gym class some trillions of trillions of trillions of light-years away.

    And if you think not, guess again. In less than three minutes, she's going to receive her schedule for the year on her very first day of 8th grade. She got up in the morning and said to herself, "I am a confident and ABLE young woman."

    Let's take a trip-

    Far out there, some many trillions of immeasurable miles away, a little boy sits at the edge of a pond and gazes into the sky, wondering if there is a God. His father told him of Rokba, the great fireball of the North who judges the infidels of Carasac, and gives light and blessing to fair people of Hudea.
    This little boy was told by an elderly man of the western lands in Gellinda that all which he sees is work of one God: an all-powerful, all-mighty being which created the universe some time ago. This old man told the little boy that he must respect God, and give praise to his works. For he is the one, almighty creator who made the world for us to live in happiness and worship him eternally.

    But this little boy had been told since he was naught but a babe that everything which he sees is the work of three equally powerful Gods: Jokba, Rokba, and Feskal. These Gods ruled over the waters, the sky, and the land, respectively.

    This little boy knew not what to think. If there is one God, how come he had not been told of it before? Sitting quaintly at the side of a pond, the thoughts and emotions within him have been tearing him apart, and so he thinks now of going and seeking the old man for advice.

    Don't believe me? It's happening, right now. It's happening again. And again. And again. I can't tell how many little boys are sitting by a pond right now pondering over theology. Because within the infinity of spacetime, there are infinte worlds and places and things of beauty. There are endless fantasies of dungeons and dragons and battles, and swords and seas and kingdoms and castles and armies and our imagination cannot handle it!

    The world is not too small for our imaginition. Rather within the infinity of all things, our imganiation cannot even begin to chronicle its endless wonder. For in this world, everything has already happened, save that which will come to pass. Your life is chosen only by infinity and the endlessness of reality. Free will? Forget it. It's not up to you. But being motivated by the infinitesimally subliminal events of the past, I encourage not to waste your life! Do your best, and see what love is all about! Reach into infinity and fill your heart with a tale of splendor.

    There is no God.

  2. FourSuits

    FourSuits True Blue Australian

    Thank... umm... well anyway, somebody who finally relised.
    some preist was trying to tell me that GOD is infinity, but what created god, he can't exist.

    hey, do u like dr who, i hate it that the season final is going to be next week in australia.:cry:
  3. marshall

    marshall Registered Member

    Four suits probably a whole nother thred right there. yeah gods a dic....tator.
  4. Shfoosmuck

    Shfoosmuck New Member

    My sentiments exactly. Of course, that's also only one perspective. We could also look at the swarms of contradicting evidence, but that's a story for another time.

    Good post.
  5. nothingspecial

    nothingspecial New Member

    "some preist was trying to tell me that GOD is infinity, but what created god, he can't exist."

    Well this is not the issue. Theoretically, if God (all-powerful, all-knowing, the supernatural being) were to exist he wouldn't need a creator himself, for he WOULD be infinty, and we would be finity.

    But how CAN god possibly exist? You cannot possibly provide any natural explanation to his eternal power and godhead (such as quantum theory), and the universe is able to exist forever, so that there is no logical reason to think he exists.

    You might get your hopes up that one day they'll discover HOW god can exist, but other whys, the only "logical" justification for it is that the universe had to have begun at some point. In that case, any atheist should (at least) abandon his Godless outlook on the cosmos. For without God (an infinite entity outside of nature) matter could never come forth without his supernatural ability to create it. But seeing as the same "exact' thing can never possibly happen (within the infinite chasm), an infinite universe may exist completely without the help of God.

    So ultimately, one should not say, "God does not exist". Rather, "God cannot exist."

    Therefore, I am an Atheist by default. No matter what bubbly feeling I get, no matter what spectacular phenomenon I witness, no matter how deep and meaninful would seem the words on a page, I cannot provide any evidence for his existence.
  6. anagapesis

    anagapesis New Member

    That blew my mind away. Honestly, it did. (Not literally speaking of course, but I figure no one would take me literally in this case. Of course, this is all needless to say, I suppose.)

    Very excellent argument. I'm of my own religion, of which I made my own kind of deities - heroes of mine, I guess. But not necessarily creators of the world, the universe, matter itself. I, come to think about it, believe in Destiny as a higher power. I don't consider Destiny a being, however. I entity, yes. But not necessarily a being. Nothing that thinks. Nothing that breathes.
    Though, I guess you could build an enormous and logical argument on that, too...but. Meh.

    I'm mostly, though not entirely, religiously Satanic in my beliefs - not meaning I sacrifice animals and eat babies and whatnot. Because that's not being religiously Satanic. That's just being...influenced-by-the-media Satanic. o.o;
    No, instead, I regard the Nine Sins of Satanism as true sins, and I regard the Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth as reasonable rules. Even though I'm extremely hypocritical and am actually defying one of the rules at the moment. xD

    But...I'm now going to shut my trap before your opinion of me worsens. x:

    Oh, but I would like to add that religious Satanists, in fact, do not worship Satan.
    It's all very confusing.
  7. nothingspecial

    nothingspecial New Member

    I am atheist who has not come in ignorance or in desire. My choice was not my expectation, rather the inevitability in which my thoughts have led me.

    For I once thought that God must exist, as I had assumed from hope that the universe had to have once begun. But as I began to finally and fully establish a theistic outlook on the world, one question irritated and kept me from the rest of my life: How is it possible?

    Ultimately, I realized my only justification for theistic rationality was the alleged "impossibility" of the alternative (an infinite universe). I thought, How can this be? I nearly chose to completely ignore the question, trusting in God, and instead began to consider getting into a "right relationship with Jesus Christ".

    So long had they preached to me things which never made sense; so many unanswered alter calls; so many awkward moments having to give loophole answers to my cadre leader concerning my "spiritual walk with God". I felt like I wanted to want to be right with god, and never understood. I felt scared that my future would crumble without him. I assumed it would all be worked out int ime but that had to do something about now.

    I always thought that they were right, and I was wrong, I just never understood what exactly they wanted me to do. Was I supposed to let God in? Or would he just hit me one day like Saul? Such speechcraft they wealded that I was kept confused and abandoned.

    As a christian (supposedly what they call a "christ-follower"), I naturally discovered the world of creationism. I began my intellectual journey with a full assumption of the bible's accuracy, and started to examine the work ofpeople like Dr. Walt
  8. Firzen

    Firzen Registered Member

    You're using the the proof of the existence of destiny as a proof of the inexistence of some kind of god. But there is no destiny in our "world". If destiny existed, the universe could be mathematicly rebuild. But there are some phenomena like the "uncertainty principle", which do not allow to know the position and speed of one particle at a particular time. If there was something like destiny, everything could be predestinate, because every variable is known. From this it follows that it is impossible that destiny exists, because you can't know all variables, which are needed to rebuild the universum mathematicly.
    Nice try.
    You can't prove the existence or inexistence of a god.
  9. Phoenix

    Phoenix Fee-nix

    My personal belief is that I can't prove or disprove god. I appreciate the teachings that the various religions provide (on how to treat others), but I dont subscribe myself to any one religion. As far as whether or not god I said, I dont think I can ever truly know either way. However, I do think that others are more than welcome to have their own beliefs, just as long as they dont start shoving them in my face :)
  10. Doc

    Doc Trust me, I'm The Doctor. V.I.P.

    Says who? There is no mathematical or scientifical proof that there is, or isn't a "smallest particle." What is your so-called "smallest particle" is actually energy itself, and impossible for us to view? What about string or m-theory that states there can be as many as 26 different dimensions, could they be the explanation as to why we can't find the "smallest particle?"

    The same thing never happens? So I can't pick my nose twice, or flick my pen twice? In fact, even in the multiple-world theory it is possible for me to be picking my nose in another multiverse at that exact moment in time, while still having another version of me not picking my nose at that same exact moment in time in another multiverse. So, according to most quantum theorists, the same thing can always happen. Since you built the rest of your arguments against this point, I've already disproved most of what you've already said.

    I do, although, agree with your logical conclusion of a deity not existing, although as an agnostic I believe that it's impossible for us to know for sure if any deity/deities exist.

    So, the time has come to move onto the rest of your post.

    Now you're getting into spacetime theory, which combines space and time with time being a fourth dimension. Objects in space actually manipulate spacetime, which means time is manipulated and therefore nonlinear. How can you know that everything within the bounds of physical law has already occurred? Anything can happen, especially when you throw in the multiple universe theory. It's not that is has or hasn't happened, the real question you should be asking is when and where is it happening?

    Everything in the universe lies out beyond our sun, and "far out" is just a generalization and is merely a varying phrase that you used to try to add a little mystery to your weak argument. As I said, everything is beyond our sun, including Maryl Streep. The Maryl Streep that I was in eighth grade class with could have existed, but in a universe that I know prior knowledge of as I currently live in this one, the same one that you're reading this post in. In fact, there's another multiverse where I didn't even reply, or I replied like a moron, or I'm not a moderator. Gotta love chaos theory, so many variables that are hard for the human mind to comprehend, being infinite and all. I guess that would mean there's an infinite amount of matter, too, since there's endless combinations of said matter.

    Read -- multiverse. Anything can happen in this theory, and it disproves the existence of a deity by default. Maybe she decided to use Mary Streep as her stage name, instead, in another multiverse.

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