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atheism and morality

Random9

Registered Member
atheism doesn't really require it's "followers" to be moral,atheism actually doesn't really ask for anything(aside from not believing in gods/god).
an atheist of course can be moral because he enjoys it(or whatever), but i really don't understand why some atheists are so obsessed with morals(especially when it has something to do with religion).

unlike religious people who have a god,and to whom immorality is going against the laws of god, to an atheist for someone having a different set of morals(or no morals at all) is more like someone eating chocolate ice cream while your favorite is vanilla.

i guess some atheists might oppose some religious stances because they think that those stances might harm them(i.e purely egoistical motives), but i really don't get the sense that that's the reasoning behind most of the statements made against religion by atheists.

thoughts?
 
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Nevyrmoore

AKA Ass-Bandit
an atheist of course can be moral because he enjoys it(or whatever), but i really don't understand why atheists are so obsessed with morals(especially when it has something to do with religion).
Because humans are, ultimately, pack animals. And we've gotten used to the fact that pissing people off tends to make us outsiders in our respective packs. So people stick with morals because, as an example, stabbing uncle Joe in the groin with a carving knife tends to piss people off, and gets us disowned by the family.
 

Random9

Registered Member
Because humans are, ultimately, pack animals. And we've gotten used to the fact that pissing people off tends to make us outsiders in our respective packs. So people stick with morals because, as an example, stabbing uncle Joe in the groin with a carving knife tends to piss people off, and gets us disowned by the family.
that's an egoistic arguments,and not that i disagree with it,but you can't say the same thing about a well planned crime where those involved are certain(doesn't matter if they are right or wrong) that they will get away with it while gaining something from it.

I think you're making a sweeping statement about atheists which is untrue.
ok,should be better now.(i hope)
 

Hilander

Free Spirit
Staff member
V.I.P.
I don't think it matter too much if your christian or not.

Some people just don't have morals. I think they live their lives not considering others feelings or how someone will look at what they are doing. They may have a problem with it if your the one doing it but somehow they will justify their own actions to suit themselves.

Then you have people that wouldn't say or do anything they wouldn't want done to them. They treat others like they would like to be treated. I try to treat others like I would want to be treated until they give me reason not to. Like for instance, I am not a cheater but I was dating this guy one time that I found out was cheating, so I did too. He only thought there was something wrong with it when I was doing it.
 

Nevyrmoore

AKA Ass-Bandit
I don't really see how my post is egotistic; could someone else chime in on that issue?

As for your follow up, yes, it's true that I can't make the same argument for criminals. However, I'd consider my argument to still stand; criminals have gone against public morality, and are thus considered to be, in the eyes of the general public, outcasts. While they don't care about it, plenty of other people do; it's why those people don't turn to crime.
 
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Random9

Registered Member
I don't think it matter too much if your christian or not.

Some people just don't have morals. I think they live their lives not considering others feelings or how someone will look at what they are doing. They may have a problem with it if your the one doing it but somehow they will justify their own actions to suit themselves.

Then you have people that wouldn't say or do anything they wouldn't want done to them. They treat others like they would like to be treated. I try to treat others like I would want to be treated until they give me reason not to. Like for instance, I am not a cheater but I was dating this guy one time that I found out was cheating, so I did too. He only thought there was something wrong with it when I was doing it.
your probably wrong about most egoists(some are not even aware that they are egoists), not caring for others doesn't mean you do as you please, one may "care" for others while actually only caring for himself.(" you scratch my back i scratch your back") complete and total disgrad for others is not egoism(usually) it's stupidity(usually) as you will lose more than you'll gain(usually).

I don't really see how my post is egotistic; could someone else chime in on that issue?
your arguments for not stubbing people were completely self-concerned(egoistic)-don't harm others because they will harm you in retaliation.
As for your follow up, yes, it's true that I can't make the same argument for criminals. However, I'd consider my argument to still stand; criminals have gone against public morality, and are thus considered to be, in the eyes of the general public, outcasts. While they don't care about it, plenty of other people do; it's why those people don't turn to crime.
what about criminals who got away with it without anyone suspecting them?
 
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Nevyrmoore

AKA Ass-Bandit
your arguments for not stubbing people were completely self-concerned(egoistic)-don't harm others because they will harm you in retaliation.
Ah, that's what you're getting at. Alright, but how does that counter my argument?

what about criminals who got away with it without anyone suspecting them?
What does this line of questioning have to do with the argument that atheists shouldn't actually have morals?
 

Random9

Registered Member
Ah, that's what you're getting at. Alright, but how does that counter my argument?
it doesn't,your argument was for not doing something which is considered immoral out of egoism,and oneself can be seen as very important to an atheist.(i never said it makes sense to harm yourself in order to harm others)

egoism(as i see it) is amorality.(so robing a gun store with a police car outside is not just an egoistic act it's also a stupid one,while conning other people out of their money is egoistic while not necessarily stupid)

What does this line of questioning have to do with the argument that atheists shouldn't actually have morals?
i didn't say they shouldn't,i said morals have very little meaning to atheists
unlike religious people who have a god,and to whom immorality is going against the laws of god, to an atheist for someone having a different set of morals(or no morals at all) is more like someone eating chocolate ice cream while your favorite is vanilla.
think about it this way: as an atheist(i assume) where do your morals come from?
why shouldn't i steal if i know i will get away with it?(like piracy(the internet kind))
 

Nevyrmoore

AKA Ass-Bandit
it doesn't,your argument was for not doing something which is considered immoral out of egoism,and oneself can be seen as very important to an atheist.(i never said it makes sense to harm yourself in order to harm others)
Assuming that someone is being truly egotistic, of course, considering that an egotistic person has no true concern for others. That being said, it is possible to fake morals for the purposes of being egotistical (enhance their own image, of course), but I wouldn't actually consider that person to be "moral".

i didn't say they shouldn't,i said morals have very little meaning to atheists
think about it this way: as an atheist(i assume) where do your morals come from?
why shouldn't i steal if i know i will get away with it?(like piracy(the internet kind))
Agnostic, actually, but you could say that agnosticism is simply atheism for pussies.

How do you know that morals have little meaning to atheists? Morals outline one very specific thing: that it's wrong to do certain things. You don't have to be religious to know that stealing is wrong; if you did, we'd see all atheists going out stealing, murdering, and so on because "morality is for those religious types!"

"But why not steal if they can get away with it? There's no afterlife in their mind!"
Because our society has had the fact that certain things are wrong drilled into them for years. People don't necessarily need a reason to not do wrong things outside of the fact that "it's wrong", that by doing these wrong things, people are hurt.
 
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