Are we born guilty of something?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by julio2, May 12, 2009.

  1. julio2

    julio2 Registered Member

    Why do some [many] humans never make it in life?
    Then comes religion putting more blame on top of the misfortune!
    Do you do that to others [blame them]?
    Last edited: May 13, 2009

  2. Nightsurfer

    Nightsurfer ~Lucky 13 strikes again~

    I blame myself for any and all mistakes that I have made in the past. To blame someone else is just a way to make yourself feel better about the poor choices you have made through out your life.
  3. Merc

    Merc Certified Shitlord V.I.P. Lifetime

    This whole "born with sin" or "born guilty" mentality is a way of people avoiding their own responsibilities. People need to be held accountable a hell of a lot more times than they are today.
  4. FutureTrackStar

    FutureTrackStar Registered Member

    This reminds me of Nietzsche's Genealogy of Morals, in which he describes master and slave morality. Basically, he said slave morality is the idea that we are our own masters, and we do as we please, with no sense of guilt. He called slave morality a fictitious rebellion against the masters/oppressors.

    I would say people are born with the tendency to become a "master", or at least born the the desire to become a "master". When was the last time you saw a child who was perfectly obedient to his parents and subservient to all adults? Rather, children often scream "NO!" to their parents, and "I DON'T WANT TO!". It's their natural tendency toward master morality. Children aren't born humble.

    So, a person who believes master morality is "evil" would probably say that we are all born guilty. A person who believes master morality is "good" would probably not.

    From a completely philosophical point of view, I would say master morality is counter intuitive, and therefore not the correct way of living.

    From a completely religious point of view, I would say that people are born with a concept called "original sin", which is essentially the natural tendency toward sin. You aren't guilty until you consciously commit a sin, and newborn babes aren't really "conscious" until around... 3 years old?
    Last edited by a moderator: May 12, 2009
  5. Chaos

    Chaos Epic Gamer V.I.P. Lifetime

    Whilst I'm not entirely sure about the point of the OP itself I'm just going to go ahead and address this with the idea of Original Sin and Christianity in mind - this is in Religion, after all.

    Do I think Humans are born guilty in terms of Sin? No. I think it's a nonsensical idea to have, personally. By that logic, babies who die in childbirth will go to Hell. I'm not even going to bother listing the countless 'innocent' people who have never confessed who would join them there. :rolleyes:
  6. FutureTrackStar

    FutureTrackStar Registered Member

    - What is innocence? I thought it would not exist in a world lacking in absolute good and evil.
  7. Chaos

    Chaos Epic Gamer V.I.P. Lifetime

    :rolleyes: I'm guessing in your frenzied religious fanatacism you missed the ' ' marks, huh? :lol:

    Now, first of all, what does innocence have to do with absolute good or evil? Innocence means "being not guilty".

    And, second of all, I was talking under the pretense of Heaven and Hell actually existing.
  8. FutureTrackStar

    FutureTrackStar Registered Member

    - "Being not guilty"... of what? Evil?

    So, what you were essentially doing is picking apart the Christian religion and saying "X makes sense, Y makes sense, but Z makes no sense. So X may exist, Y may exist, but Z definitely doesn't exist". Is that what you are doing?
  9. julio2

    julio2 Registered Member

    As far as I’m concerned, I abhor religious connotations inferring that the misfortunes of an individual are due to somehow his guilty birth.
    That’s what cultic churches teach, and in the process acquire a livelihood for their parasitical abnormalities!
    Instead of REALLY helping the world get rid of religious FANATICISM, the popes of this world resort to perpetuate the inferiority complex they inflict on the born innocent!
  10. Chaos

    Chaos Epic Gamer V.I.P. Lifetime

    Usually of a specific crime. Crime is not inherently Evil (because of course that doesn't exist :D), merely antisocial in its nature.

    No, not at all. Unlike you, it seems, my mind doesn't whirl about seeing numbers and symbols everywhere, like the Matrix. :lol:

    What I said was, I would be replying to the OP in terms of Christianity because I didn't quite get the point it was making. And, in terms of Christianity, I don't think Humans are born guilty of Sin, because as I pointed out that would mean babies who die of childbirth go straight to Hell, no questions asked, do not pass go, do not collect £200 - and to me that's a ridiculous and heartless idea to believe in*.

    Now, do you believe that babies are not innocent, insofar as they have committed no crime? Do you disagree with that statement? Imagine, if you will, a scenario wherein we shall put aside our argument of Absolute Good and Evil and pretend that they exist. Would you agree that babies who die during birth should go to Hell? That's what you think, is it? :shake:

    * The key words in there, should you happen to miss them, were "to me". :thumbsup:

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