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Are they really ''Irish''?

Hanzo_Hattori

For the Horde!
Family fears for four Irish held in Cairo - RT News
'Relatives fear for four Irish citizens being held after Cairo mosque stand-off'

Relatives of four Irish citizens being held after the stand-off at the Al-Fateh mosque in Cairo yesterday say they fear for their safety.
The three young women and teenage boy are children of Hussein Halawa, the Imam at Ireland's largest mosque in Clonskeagh in Dublin.
Omaima, 20, and Fatima Halawa, 22, left the mosque and were taken by Egyptian security forces who had surrounded and stormed the building.
Are they really ''Irish''? I personally don't think so. I have nothing against them except that they're calling their selves Irish. Their family names are nothing of Irish origin, the look of them seems to me that they were not born here but immigrants.

Ok fine, you come to Ireland, live here for a few years, get citizenship but if you're still not fully Irish.
What would you think at the top of your head if a black person calls their self chinese? Would you not think that's 'WTF'?
I just find calling them Irish silly when theyre keeping their Middle-eastern culture and may have been living here for a few years.
 

Bubbles

I ♥ Haters
Family fears for four Irish held in Cairo - RT News
'Relatives fear for four Irish citizens being held after Cairo mosque stand-off'

Are they really ''Irish''? I personally don't think so. I have nothing against them except that they're calling their selves Irish. Their family names are nothing of Irish origin, the look of them seems to me that they were not born here but immigrants.

Ok fine, you come to Ireland, live here for a few years, get citizenship but if you're still not fully Irish.
What would you think at the top of your head if a black person calls their self chinese? Would you not think that's 'WTF'?
I just find calling them Irish silly when theyre keeping their Middle-eastern culture and may have been living here for a few years.
Wow... ethnocentric, much?

They ARE Irish because they are citizens of Ireland. Let me school you on something - Irish is not a race or an ethnicity, it's a nationality. Any person of any religion or race can be Irish if they are a citizen of Ireland. Nationality and Ethnicity = two different things. Oh and your "black Chinese" person argument holds no merit. China = country. Therefore, a black person who identifies themselves as Chinese is a Chinese citizen. Again, Chinese = Nationality. Asian = race. Just sayin'.

And secondly, who are you to decide whether or not they're Irish? What exactly do they have to do to prove to you that they're Irish? And how is being a tax paying, law abiding citizen not enough? So in order to be really Irish, immigrants should have to abandon their cultures, traditions and religion in order to appease you. Oh, and they should also "look" Irish... whatever the hell that means. Ok, got it. You need to get over yourself.

That's my two cents. Take it however you want it.
 
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dDave

Well-Known Member
V.I.P.
Wow... ethnocentric, much?

They ARE Irish because they are citizens of Ireland. Let me school you on something - Irish is not a race or an ethnicity, it's a nationality. Any person of any religion or race can be Irish if they are a citizen of Ireland. Nationality and Ethnicity = two different things. Oh and your "black Chinese" person argument holds no merit. China = country. Therefore, a black person who identifies themselves as Chinese is a Chinese citizen. Again, Chinese = Nationality. Asian = race. Just sayin'.

And secondly, who are you to decide whether or not they're Irish? What exactly do they have to do to prove to you that they're Irish? And how is being a tax paying, law abiding citizen not enough? So in order to be really Irish, immigrants should have to abandon their cultures, traditions and religion in order to appease you. Oh, and they should also "look" Irish... whatever the hell that means. Ok, got it. You need to get over yourself.

That's my two cents. Take it however you want it.
I tend to think like this as well.

I could technically call myself German but that sounds weird, I prefer the term American. I think that nationality is infinitely more important than ethnicity.

I live in America where we have people of every ethnicity in the world. We don't class ourselves according to ethnicity but rather try to come together and be American together.
 

wooly

I am the woolrus
Yeah I have to agree with Bubbles here 100%. To be honest though, I would say that this is a fairly typical Irish perspective. For a nation that has relied so much on other nations taking us in as immigrants during our worst times, we're not a very welcoming nation to others. Particularly after the difficulties and social exclusion that Irish people faced when living as immigrants in other countries, you'd think we'd have learned not to treat other immigrants like that, but sadly not. This is particularly true since the recession hit:. Same old story really:


Although even before the recession, there's always been a difficulty for people to be accepted as "Irish". Even for myself. I was born in England to an Irish father and mother (although my mother was born and raised in England to Irish immigrants). We moved back to Ireland when I was only one year old, and when my parents separated I lived with my mother and siblings. Because of my mother and older brother's strong English accents, I still had an English accent growing up, and because of this would NEVER be accepted as being Irish, even though I had lived almost my whole life there and was a son of two Irish parents. My name is even 'Ciarán' for god's sake! :p So if I can't even be accepted then there's no hope for the Halawa family.

To be honest, because of the exclusion faced growing up, while I identify myself as Irish generally, as an adult I prefer to identify myself as English when I'm in Ireland. I'd never be fully accepted by many no matter how long I live here, so no point trying I guess!
 
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Hilander

Free Spirit
Staff member
V.I.P.
If they are citizens of Ireland then they are Irish. Their ancestors obviously came from somewhere else. I am American but my ancestors came from Ireland and a few from Scotland but I still consider myself American.

I have to wonder why they took the chance of going there considering what has been going on lately.
 

CaptainObvious

Son of Liberty
V.I.P.
I agree with Bubbles 100%. I've heard this many times down here, that "Mexicans" aren't American enough, whatever that means. I've had to explain to some simple minded people that since I was born and raised here, not that it matters but by two legal US citizens, I am 100% American. Don't like the food I eat? I don't care. Don't like the music I listen to? I don't care. Being American isn't an ethnicity, it's being a citizen of this country and there are no degrees of Americans. The music I listen to sometimes or the food I eat doesn't translate into me being any less American than anyone else.
 

idisrsly

I'm serious
V.I.P.
Yeah, if they have Irish citizenship, they're Irish, regardless of their ethnicity. I am South African, but I have zero South African heritage. One half of my family is from France and the other half from Scotland, but I don't refer to myself as Scotish or French.

To be honest though, I would say that this is a fairly typical Irish perspective.
I just wanted to say something on this as well. I can kind of see how this might be an Irish thing. I knew a lot of Irish people in the States, and even though they are American and have been American citizens for decades, they still refer to themselves as Irish. I guess the flipside is also true, in that the Irish don't particularly open up to people from other countries calling themselves Irish. :-/
 

Sim

Registered Member
I guess many Europeans have some troubles making a difference between ethnicity and nationality, because until relatively recently, it was more or less the same in many countries here. Unlike the US or Canada or Australia etc., we don't have a long tradition of immigration.

That said, I totally agree that immigrants who have acquired the citizenship here should be considered fellow nationals. I don't care where their parents came from, what they eat, how they dress, how they pray -- as long as they have German citizenship, want to belong here, respect the constitution and laws and speak German well enough to get along, they're German in my book.

But I know many Germans, even many who aren't really xenophobes, are not used to that kind of thinking. Even when they have no ill will or bad intentions, you'll often hear people asking an immigrant "where are you from?", even if he grew up here and is totally naturalized.

I can only imagine it's similar in some other European countries too.

Hope we'll come to take diversity more for granted with time.
 

Kazmarov

For a Free Scotland
Nationality is a socially constructed idea created to achieve certain political goals. People can call themselves what they want, the only reason people are classified this way is due to historical coincidence.
 
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