America's role in the world.

Discussion in 'Politics & Law' started by fleinn, May 22, 2008.

?

Israel is..

  1. ..really screwing up.

    12.5%
  2. ..keeping it's own interests.

    62.5%
  3. ..giving the US the finger.

    25.0%
  1. fleinn

    fleinn 101010

    "Advice From White House Is Not Always Followed"
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/22/washington/22assess.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
    (read the rest..)

    Some of us have been talking about the way the US is actively reclusing itself from any diplomatic solutions with merit around the world. And how that in turn isolates the US and limits the influence it can wield.

    We've seen this in Japan, with their actually serious discussion on striking down their ban on having nuclear weapons. Because this evidently has something to do with their reliance on America for security in the region.

    We've seen this with China. Any negotiations or attempts to shape everything from Burma and Tibet to the Olympics have failed abysmally. Something that again backfires in that diplomacy in general becomes useless - and we have only third party options to have influence. Such as through emergency aid organisations and NGOs of various kinds, or indirectly through business- interests.

    Earlier on, we had this with South Korea and UN secretary general Ban Ki Moon - as he and others fairly obviously made claims that flew directly in the face of the Bush- administration's rhetoric (and actions) against the Kim regime. To the point where the Bush- administration attacked the foreign service's representatives in that region who refused to, I suppose, stamp their foot and hold their breath.

    Other events could include Iranian influence in Iraq, where their interlocutors have been successful in.. among other things, I'm sure.. brokering a (momentary) peace- agreement between the government forces and the Mahdi army. Again something which is the antithesis of Bush- administration foreign policy.

    Lastly, we're ending up in Israel, where after several Egyptian attempts to broker a peace- agreement between Hamas, Fatah and Israel - Israel now turns on it's own towards settling a peace- agreement with Syria, in attempts hosted by Turkey.


    So what is the US's role in this? Why?
     
    Babe_Ruth likes this.

  2. fleinn

    fleinn 101010

    ..thousands of people being killed? Lost jobs? Tanking economy? Faltering security- political relationships? Departing from any and all international treaties? Falling completely in love with the exceptionalism idea? Continuing to use foreign policy solely as a domestic policy whip? There's an election coming up..

    There are at least a few reasons.

    Here's a very good look at the torture- problem in that context, for example:
    Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

    And yeah - what puts the US apart from the rest of the world are these weird stories about what government can accomplish, if you only shape the rhetoric with enough swagger. Doesn't work.
     
    Van likes this.
  3. Kazmarov

    Kazmarov For a Free Scotland

    America is one of many nations in the world, and should focus on global consensus and cooperation to confront large problems such as terrorism, climate change, hunger, AIDS, and poverty.

    See "Internationalism".
     
  4. fleinn

    fleinn 101010

    ..Osama bin Laden is an internationalist. ..You know - before and during the Clinton- administration, they at least had the decency to say that "this is what we're calling it in the US". So that when they were talking about internationalism, they were talking about a specific type of american foreign policy towards the rest of the world's countries and international organisations.

    Nowadays, I'm pretty sure "Internationalism" means anything from open- ended wars in the middle east, disregard for national souvereignity and the destruction of all international fora, and all the way to green taxes and caps on co2 emissions..

    The rest of us still deal with other countries like before, though..
     
  5. Rapier

    Rapier Registered Member V.I.P. Lifetime

    The reason the US role is so blurry is because no one knows who is pushing the neoconservative buttons that have been turning the USA into the USSR.
    ------
    We have thousands of soldiers killed and many many more wounded. We're fighting 2 wars the economy is tanking and Bill Moyer is sighing about the plight of terrorist prisoners getting water poured on their heads.
    As if the world sees us as the bad guy because of it.


    Just one big frenzy of confusion. Will it be any better under one of the three WORST candidates who have ever been finalists for POTUS.

    A junior Senator from NY. A junior Senator from Illinois.
    And a 71 year old Senator from Arizona who is likely as long as it takes with Iraq.

    Who pushed these weak sisters to the forefront?


    Who are the puppeteers?
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2008
  6. fleinn

    fleinn 101010

    Yes, they would. Or to be more specific and not so incredibly one way or the other, we'd very much like the US not to throw away a number of years of active and useful alliance - by suddenly rejecting human rights, rule of law, and basic representative democracy. And yeah, large amounts of people failing to see how torture and extralegal detention are symbols of rejecting anything the US has ever stood for - like other representative democracies - for the last couple of hundred years.. that's probably a bit of the problem.

    Coming up with conspiracy theories on evil antichrist presidents, or evil mad banks and shady government meetings - instead of trying to look at the serious systemic problems, is probably another part of it all.

    Btw - Scott Horton has a good appeal up:
    No Comment (Harper's Magazine)
     
  7. Rapier

    Rapier Registered Member V.I.P. Lifetime


    Good grief. The US is up to its neck in it's democracy building foreign policy and you think the world is judging us or even the least bit concerned about our pouring water on the heads of suspected terrorists?

    Well they are not. They do wonder why there are over 2 million Americans being held in our prisons.
     
  8. fleinn

    fleinn 101010

    How do you figure out they are "terrorists", then? From the "water treatment"? Secret government information picked up by Jack Bauer?
    Not really, no. Authority worship, fear and viciousness explains that one. *shrug*
     
  9. Unity

    Unity Chett Chetterfield Staff Member

    "Democracy-building" is a problem. I want everyone to enjoy our freedoms, but think that in most cases it should come about naturally and not be forced on those who might not be ready to handle it properly.

    Everyone should be worried about waterboarding. It's atrocious.
     
  10. Rapier

    Rapier Registered Member V.I.P. Lifetime

    It's an atrocity. But compared to other things that bring the US criticism on the World Stage it is less than 15 minutes in the life of Britney Spears.

    Why should everyone be worried about water boarding?
    I read the article.
    ABC News: CIA's Harsh Interrogation Techniques Described

    The numbers of people actually being "tortured" is "minuscule." IMO Splashing about torture by the media distracts Americans from issues that deserve their concern.
     

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