Affirmation - none

Adastra

Registered Member
#1
Zealots, religion pushers, extremists. This is why I find it harder and harder to believe in my own faith and faith in humanity in general. Yes I was born and live in the Holy Land, but what meaning is that now?

Why do our instincts insist on violence? I have studied the interactions between different species. The innate desire to survive seems to demand the death of the other. Why can they not stand hand in hand? So many believe the world was created by the hand of a divine power - but I see only the designs of a madman bent on celebrating destruction and desperation. Our origins seem chaotic Unintended. Purpose and being instilled solely by the passage of time. Imposed first by nature - and later men..

Is it truth in some objective sense? No. But how does one ever achieve an objective point of view? The answer is you don't. It is literally, physically impossible. There are too many variables. Too many fields and formulae to consider. We can try, of course. We can inch closer and closer to a revelation. But we'll never reach it. Not ever... course. We can inch closer and closer to a revelation. But we'll never reach it. Not ever...

And so I have realized, that so long as government leaders and their same thinking associates, and religious extremists exist, they will attempt to bend reality to their will. They recognize there is no such thing as an absolute truth - or if there is - we are hopelessly under-equipped to recognize it. And so in its place, they seek to create their own explanation. It is the guiding principle of their so-named "New World Order"; To reshape existence in their own image. It is not about weapons Not about men. These are merely tools. It's about concepts. Clever of them. For how does one wage war against a concept? It is the perfect weapon. It lacks a physical form yet can alter the world around us in numerous, often violent ways. You cannot kill a concept. Even if you kill all of its dherents, destroy all of its writings - these are a reprieve at best. Some one, some day, will rediscover it. Reinvent it. I believe that even we, the people of this world have simply re-discovered an Order that predates God himself.

Attis. Dionysus. Horus. Krishna. Mithra. Jesus. Similar stories color their lives. Too similar, I think. Divine birthright. Persecution. Disciples. Miraculous acts, Resurrection.. How is it possible? Perhaps it isn't... Merely a single story told over the ages? Borrowed then changed to fit the times? Evolving as our tools and language do? Is this tale born of fact or fiction? A bit of both? Could these figures be the same person - their life extended and transformed?

Many a man spoke of Jesus as a real person - a mortal who had mastered the arts of manipulation. But what if they were wrong? If these men are real - and if they have walked amongst us many times before - does it mean they'll come again? Perhaps they are here now? So many questions, and every day, even more.

Man seeks dominion over all that he encounters. I suppose it is a natural tendency for us to aspire towards mastery of our surroundings. But this should not include other human beings. Every day more and more are pressed into service - by deception or by force. Others, though not so firmly imprisoned, are made to feel as if their lives are worthless. I have seen the ways in which men persecute women Heard the cruel words hurled at those who come here from other lands. Watched as those who believe or act differently are made to suffer..

We discuss such things often. What can be done to stop this? To encourage tolerance and equality? Some days we speak of education, believing that knowledge will free us from immorality. But as I walk the streets and see people turned to slaves for a decent wage just to feed a family- my heart grows cold. When I see the husband hurl abuses at his wife, insisting she exists only to serve him - my fists clench. And when I see children torn from their parents by abuse, or worse......On these days, I do not think that dialogue will make a difference.

I have studied the ancient pagan faiths that came before this obsession with a single, divine creator. They seem to have focused more on the fundamental forces at play in the world around us and less on arbitrary mora rules. The sun rises in the morning and sets in the evening. The tides ebb and flow. Grass grows, withers, dies, and then in time, emerges from the ground once more. The air turns warm then cools and back again. Gravity, the hidden energy that keeps us fitted to the ground and pulls us back when we attempt to leave it

ach of these movements was represented before by a god or goddess. Each force given face, but recognized as something distinct and powerful. Which is not to say there were not connections between these forces - a pantheon of individual spirits- of rules. Invisible hands guiding the progress of the world around us.

And so here there was an attempt to categorize, study, explain, and understand the way things work - even if it was flawed. But no more. Now we are asked to succumb to a far more simplified explanation. How naive to believe there might be a single answer to every question. Every mystery. That there exists a lone divine light which rules over all. They say it is a light that brings truth and love. I say it is a ight that blinds us - and forces us to stumble about in ignorance.

I now long for the day when men turn away from invisible monsters and once more embrace a more rational view of the world. But these one deity religions are so convenient - and promise such terrible punishment should one reject them - I worry that fear shall keep us stuck to what is surely the greatest lie ever told.

When I leave my home in the fall I do not know if I will be called back by any thing more than my family. As it stands certain things and individuals make be ashamed of not just my faith but faith in general. No miracle can be told to me to which would prove a lie, show me evidence and physical proof for I have done with thee.
 

Bananas

Endangered Species
#2
I have studied the ancient pagan faiths that came before this obsession with a single, divine creator. They seem to have focused more on the fundamental forces at play in the world around us and less on arbitrary mora rules. The sun rises in the morning and sets in the evening. The tides ebb and flow. Grass grows, withers, dies, and then in time, emerges from the ground once more. The air turns warm then cools and back again. Gravity, the hidden energy that keeps us fitted to the ground and pulls us back when we attempt to leave it
Its intersting you mention ancient pagan faiths as there is a major difference between them and most modern religions. As you already mention each and every item is represented by a God, yet each and every item is also given the same precedence, including humans. Now most modern religions have a heirarchy of importance. Modern religions will prasie their god for providing them food to eat, most ancient religions would not, they would praise the animals spirit for giving to them its body as food. It is no less or higher for doing so, there is none of the superiority complex that the monotheist religions have developed.

I now long for the day when men turn away from invisible monsters and once more embrace a more rational view of the world.
Most of the ancient religions although romantic were no lesser monsters, only the attititudes and the subjective morality has changed; the actions though are very much the same.
 

Wade8813

Registered Member
#3
Zealots, religion pushers, extremists. This is why I find it harder and harder to believe in my own faith and faith in humanity in general. Yes I was born and live in the Holy Land, but what meaning is that now?
I also don't have much faith in humanity. But it seems unfair to blame God for people being sinful (if you believe humans have the ability to choose their actions).

I'm approaching this from a (former) Christian's perspective, and I'm not sure on all the differences between the religions. But the most common argument I've heard is that God wants us to be able to choose to do good things, but if we're able to choose, then we must be able to choose to do bad things as well.

Why do our instincts insist on violence? I have studied the interactions between different species. The innate desire to survive seems to demand the death of the other. Why can they not stand hand in hand? So many believe the world was created by the hand of a divine power - but I see only the designs of a madman bent on celebrating destruction and desperation. Our origins seem chaotic Unintended. Purpose and being instilled solely by the passage of time. Imposed first by nature - and later men..
The most common argument I've heard here is that things were created to be harmonious, but when Adam & Eve sinned, things went to hell in a hand basket.

Is it truth in some objective sense? No. But how does one ever achieve an objective point of view? The answer is you don't. It is literally, physically impossible. There are too many variables. Too many fields and formulae to consider. We can try, of course. We can inch closer and closer to a revelation. But we'll never reach it. Not ever... course. We can inch closer and closer to a revelation. But we'll never reach it. Not ever...

And so I have realized, that so long as government leaders and their same thinking associates, and religious extremists exist, they will attempt to bend reality to their will. They recognize there is no such thing as an absolute truth - or if there is - we are hopelessly under-equipped to recognize it.
I'm not 100% clear on what you're stating here. Are you saying there are no absolute truths at all? That there's no absolute truth in terms of God's existence/lack of existence? Or something else?

I have studied the ancient pagan faiths that came before this obsession with a single, divine creator. They seem to have focused more on the fundamental forces at play in the world around us and less on arbitrary moral rules.
I know it wasn't the main point you were trying to get at, but it seems inconsistent to complain that the moral rules are arbitrary, but also complain when they're violated.

And so here there was an attempt to categorize, study, explain, and understand the way things work - even if it was flawed. But no more. Now we are asked to succumb to a far more simplified explanation. How naive to believe there might be a single answer to every question. Every mystery. That there exists a lone divine light which rules over all. They say it is a light that brings truth and love. I say it is a ight that blinds us - and forces us to stumble about in ignorance.
I don't see what's naive about monotheism compared to polytheism.