#1 Problem for Atheists and Theists

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Merc, Jul 24, 2009.

  1. Merc

    Merc Certified Shitlord V.I.P. Lifetime

    Tolerance. I think one word says enough.

    Agree? Disagree?
     

  2. AmandaBB

    AmandaBB Registered Member

    If everyone would just keep their beliefs or lack of beliefs private and especially not bother others with it the world would be such a better place...
     
  3. FutureTrackStar

    FutureTrackStar Registered Member

    - Eh. For the record, when a Christian evangelizes to a non-Christian it is because the Christian genuinely wants to see the other person saved.

    Religious warfare on the other hand, such as the Crusades, is wrong, so I agree with you there.

    So.... yes, tolerance is very important, but I think a person can be tolerant and still share his/her beliefs.
     
  4. Merc

    Merc Certified Shitlord V.I.P. Lifetime

    The road to hell is paved with good intentions, FTS.

    It's still pushy and it's still annoying. Religious folk should keep to themselves just as much as atheists.
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    Good quote for what you said, FTS:

    Eskimo: "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?"
    Priest: "No, not if you did not know."
    Eskimo: "Then why did you tell me?"


    -Annie Dillard
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2009
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  5. MenInTights

    MenInTights not a plastic bag

    No one has ever summed up my thoughts on the matter better than Penn Jillette, self professed hard core atheist.

    "How much do you have to hate someone to believe that eternal life is possible and not tell them that?"

    YouTube - A Gift of a Bible

    YouTube - Respect for Christians

    I really like Penn's philosophy on the marketplace of ideas that he talked about in the second video.
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    Both of the videos that I posted were the definition of tolerance. The Christian in the first video and Penn were able to share with each other without compromising their beliefs.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2009
  6. FutureTrackStar

    FutureTrackStar Registered Member

    - As MiT quoted from that video, "How much do you have to hate someone to believe that eternal life is possible and not tell them that?"

    To be frank, I don't think I've been that pushy with the Gospel message. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like I mostly get into (Biblical) theological debates or just plain academic debates. I don't think iIve tried to shove the Gospel down anybodies throat.

    ... although, that quote from the Pennsays video makes me think I should be working toward that end a bit more... lol. Because he definitely is right...

    - That quote is not harmonious with the Bible message. The Bible clearly states that all men are without excuse and accountable:

    "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures." - Romans 1:18-23

    and then...

    "Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; because by the words of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin." - Romans 19-20
     
  7. kcdad

    kcdad Registered Member

    And I always thought it was to reinforce your own insecurities about your beliefs...
    ...after all, if you can get someone to agree with your beliefs... you must be right?

    Did Jesus EVER ask someone what they believed as a prerequisite for his love, healing, companionship, friendship or anything else? Did he EVER ask anyone to change the way they believed?
     
  8. MenInTights

    MenInTights not a plastic bag

    no, that would be atheist. Have a better reason of what makes an atheist tick?

    yes-
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    Now there came a man of the Pharisees whose name was Nicodemus, a member of the council. 2 He came to Jesus at night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could do the miraculous signs that you do unless God were with him.”

    3 Jesus replied, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

    4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter his mother’s womb and be born a second time, can he?”

    5 Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born from above.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

    9 Nicodemus replied, “How can these things be?”

    10 Jesus answered, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you don’t understand these things? 11 I tell you the solemn truth, we speak about what we know and testify about what we have seen, but you people do not accept our testimony. 12 If I have told you people about earthly things and you don’t believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven—the Son of Man. 14 Just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.”

    16 For this is the way God loved the world: he gave his one and only Son that everyone who believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 The one who believes in him is not condemned. The one who does not believe has been condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God. 19 Now this is the basis for judging: that the light has come into the world and people loved the darkness rather than the light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil deeds hates the light and does not come to the light, so that their deeds will not be exposed. 21 But the one who practices the truth comes to the light, so that it may be plainly evident that his deeds have been done in God
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2009
  9. Mirage

    Mirage Administrator Staff Member V.I.P.

    To be fair, that's a ridiculous quote.

    If you didn't know (or believe) that shooting yourself in the head would kill you, would it still kill you if you tried it? Do a google search for accidental gun deaths. You won't find any "Luckily I didn't know that guns can kill people, otherwise that headshot would have killed me" stories.

    Unless you believe in "to each his own" (which is a debate cop-out if you ask me), there has to be a right and wrong answer to all of life's major questions. For example:

    1. Either there is a god or there isn't.
    2. Either there are multiple gods or there aren't.
    3. Either there is an afterlife or there isn't.
    4. Either the universe was created or it evolved.

    So on and so forth. I mean, look at each of those statements. How can both options in each be true simply based on what two different people believe?

    There are others as well. But basically, I don't believe that different things happen to different people based on what they believe or don't believe. Everything we know tells us that there are opinions and there are facts. Deep down though, we all know that the laws of the universe and reality are not different for each person depending on what they believe to be true. We're all living in the same reality. Gravity and the laws of physics apply to us all. The placebo effect only goes so far.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2009
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  10. Merc

    Merc Certified Shitlord V.I.P. Lifetime

    Road to hell once again, FTS, road to hell.

    I don't care if their "intentions" are good and I don't hate them for preaching, but when people start speaking as if they know the bible is 100% factual and that people are simply ignorant for just believing that's when I draw the line. I don't give a damn what spiritual being you believe in and I appreciate your concern for my soul but I'm not interested.

    No offense to anyone religious, but I always viewed organized faith like telemarketing. People try and sell you by pin-pointing what they think will get your attention (or in Christianity's case, make you feel shame) and then they lure you in with an offer you can't refuse or that sounds too good to be true (live in a lake of fire while being sodomized by demons for eternity or live in paradise). Like telemarketers, I politely refuse and anyone who disagrees with that faith should be respectful as well.

    To be fair, it's not. :)

    Except it's not a guarantee if you shoot yourself in the head that you'll die just like it's not a guarantee that God exists. It makes a lot of sense really. If you don't know about hell, why tell someone especially when some faiths believe that those who are unaware (the reason they have people spread the word) will go to neither heaven nor hell? It seems to be a cruel concept.

    Sure, it's a cop out when dealing with political issues or issues that have a definitive right or wrong answer, but in this case where there are no answers, why is it a cop out? We have to come up with our own answers because there are no solid answers.

    Or there's a being who isn't God but functions on several levels similar to God. Don't forget that our brains are in fact, quite limited and most likely could not perceive what this reality truly is.

    Who said there's a God? This question is the same as the previous one.

    Or it's not as simple as calling it an "afterlife". Maybe it's both? What if you get reincarnated? Technically, that's an afterlife, but it also means there isn't a stage past this life. See what I mean as to why these aren't definite?

    Says who? Why are these the only options? Don't you think it could be a different answer we simply can't define?

    The Holocaust.

    Do we know we're all living in the same reality? What IS reality? All we can really prove is the existence of ourselves and even then, can we really prove our existence, depending on what you believe is the definition of "reality"?

    You're cutting this very thin and not thinking deeply at all Brix. Even the laws of gravity are getting debated because of black holes. Religions seeks to fix a universal truth that makes us uncomfortable and insecure and that's the idea that we will never, ever truly know everything about the world and that it's very possible that there's nothing after death, no higher power, and no "true" meaning to life. What religion does is comforts people, gives them guidance, and makes them feel like they have a purpose and for that, I support religion. I do not, however, believe that organized religion is useful and I do not believe this ignorant passive-aggressive "I only preach because I love" bullshit.
     

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